Re: Coverage in Woburn Sands - Page 2 - The EE Community

Update: 07 November 2024

Over the past few months, our engineers have been continuing negations with the site provider to arrange a date to access the area and start building the equipment needed for the mast. Once a date has been arranged and the build is completed, we can confirm an approximate on-air date for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post

Update: 16 August 2024

Over the past few months, our engineers have conducted surveys at multiple locations and found one area will be suitable for the equipment.

Our engineers have completed negotiations with the site provider and planning permission has been approved. We are working with the site provider to agree a date to access the area and start building the equipment needed for the new mast. Once we have accessed the area and the build is completed, we can confirm an approximate on-air date for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 24 May 2024

For the first location, our engineers are waiting for a decision from the legal negotiations with the site provider. Pending a positive outcome from the legal steps, we can start building the equipment needed for the new mast and confirm an approximate on-air date.

For the second location, following negotiations with the site provider to agree designs for the equipment, we have found the area will no longer be suitable for a new mast.

Our engineers have started looking at alternative locations and are currently conducting surveys to make sure the locations will be suitable for the equipment. Pending a positive outcome from the surveys, we can start legal steps to legally acquire the land from the site provider and start building the equipment needed for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 03 May 2024

Over the past few months, our engineers have accessed the area and completed the surveys and drawings for the first location and have started legal steps to legally acquire the land, and we are currently waiting for a response from the site provider. Pending a positive outcome from the legal negotiations, we can start building the equipment needed for the temporary mast and confirm an approximate on-air date.

For the second location, our engineers have completed amended designs for the power supply and submitted the designs for approval to the site provider. Pending a positive outcome from the designs, we can start legal steps to legally acquire the land from the site provider and start building the equipment needed for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 23 January 2024

Over the past few months, our engineers have completed surveys for the temporary mast and found the area will not be suitable for the equipment. Because of this, we’ve began looking for an alternative location for the replacement mast. We have found an area and are in negotiations with the site provider to access the area and complete surveys to make sure the location will be suitable for the mast. Pending a positive outcome from the negotiations, we will start legal steps to legally acquire the land and start building the equipment needed for the new mast.

For the second location, our engineers are working with the site provider to agree a date to access the area to install the power supply and start building the equipment needed for the new mast. Once we have a date to access the area to install power supply, we can confirm an approximate on-air date for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 27 November 2023

Our engineers are waiting for the outcome from the legal negotiations to access the area and complete the surveys required, to make sure the area will be suitable for the temporary mast. Pending a positive outcome from the negotiations, we can start building the equipment needed for the new mast and confirm an approximate on-air date.

For the second location, our engineers are working with the site provider to agree a date to access the area to install the power supply and start building the equipment needed for the new mast. Barring any unforeseen delays, we expect to have a build date by early 2024. Once the power supply has been installed and the build is completed, we can confirm an approximate on-air date for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 04 October 2023

Over the past month, our engineers have been unable to access the area to complete the surveys required at the location for the temporary mast. We have started legal negotiations with the site provider to access the area and complete the surveys. Pending a positive outcome from the negotiations, we can start building the equipment needed for the new mast and confirm an approximate on-air date.

Our engineers have completed surveys and electrical tests at the second location, and have found a new power supply will be required for the new mast. We are working with the power company to arrange a date for the power supply to be installed and to start building the equipment needed. Once we have a date for the build to start, we can confirm an approximate on-air date.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 07 August 2023

Our engineers are progressing with the temporary site and, barring any unexpected delays, we expect the mast to be on-air by December 2023. To improve coverage to the area until the temporary mast in on-air, we are looking to deploy a smaller and easier-to-install temporary mast in the area to improve coverage in the meantime. This won’t offer the same level of coverage as the larger temporary site we’re installing, but will help bridge the gap until then.

Over the past few weeks, we have located a new area for the mast, we are completing surveys to make sure the area will be suitable for the equipment to be installed. Pending a positive outcome from the surveys, we can start legal steps to acquire the land from the landowner and start building the equipment for the new mast.

We will keep you updated on this post.

Update: 20 July 2023

Our engineers are progressing with the temporary site and expect the mast to be on-air by December 2023. To improve coverage to the area until then, we are looking to deploy a tactical solution to provide signal before the temporary mast is on-air.

We are still progressing with two new sites and are in the early stages of gaining planning permission at the locations. We expect all work to be completed by the end of 2024.

We will keep you updated on this post.

We are aware of a signal issue that is affecting some of our customers in the Woburn Sands area. Our mast in the area had to be removed from the existing site in June 2023, as this was requested by the landowner.

To get the coverage back to previous levels, we’re looking at two new sites and we’re in the early stages of trying to gain planning permission. We currently estimate that the work will be completed by the end of 2024.

To serve the area with the best possible coverage in the meantime, we have identified an area for a temporary site and are awaiting an agreement on terms so that we can continue with our plan to build. Barring any unforeseen delays, we expect the temporary site to be up and running by December 2023.

We will keep you updated with progress here.

We’re sorry for any inconvenience caused. In the meantime, you may be able to use WiFi Calling to make and receive calls and texts over a WiFi connection.

For information on who can use WiFi Calling and how to set up this service, please see our EE WiFi Calling: All you need to know, article.

42 REPLIES 42

I have been reporting a coverage problem to EE using their online tool on an almost daily basis. each time, after a few days, I get a response back saying "problem resolved". which of course , it isn't. There's never any indication as to what problem has been found or resolved. So I report it again. we need to get everyone doing this until we annoy EE into doing something about it.

unfortunately as we both know, coverage from the others providers is worse in this general area so we've got Hobson's choice.

@Christopher_G can you please get this looked at by real human techies , in person, rather than automated systems. I've posted above the problems with the skew-wiff too-close-to-each-other antennae on The Swan (they were almost certainly moved due to building work, I do not know when this happened could have been some time ago but that's not the point) . I have measured the coverage from the The Swan's cell, using Netmonster and Cellmapper tools : it fades out after about 50 yards. your techies with their sophisticated gear will be able to see it clearly. In another thread I've exchanged messages with one of your staff who has found pictures of how the antennae were originally positioned (vertical , one on each site high up on the chimney, just like you'd expect!) . My point is that if EE could get that Swan site providing decent coverage, there is a potential quick mitigation available - it might just require some people with ladders , drills and screwdrivers! Please at least look at this.

@iancalderbank wrote:

In another thread I've exchanged messages with one of your staff

The only EE staff on this forum post from accounts flagged as "community support team" - all the replies you refer to have been from other users.

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/EE-Community-info-News/Meet-our-Community-team/td-p/1145396

Fixes that are genunely quick & easy, tend to be put in-place equally quickly.

the person in question (not yourself) had EE in their username so I thought it was a reasonable assumption. Even if that's incorrect, it doesn't change my point: this feels like we are being ignored.

Anyone can get a username with "EE" in it - many disgruntled users do exactly this as their form of protest.

The way to tell EE staff is the "community support team" - there are users on this forum with specific industry expertise who choose to post in their spare time.

Scenarios such as this, where site decom has been landowner-instigated, are a tricky one for CS to navigate, They can be frustrating, but not all networks are as open as EE are, with the first post in this thread as an example. New sites such as this, follow the same process as any other new site rollout, but are expedited where practical.

all very well but it doesn't change what is actually happening here. Some people (myself and others) are being repeatedly told by automated systems there is no problem with the network in this area. I can't get through to a human, the automated systems from 150 , for me, reaches a stopping point once they get to the point of deciding there is no problem in your area. It seems like an absolute classic case of "Computer says No".

Other people - one of those who's posted above, and anecdotally several neighbours, have been told "yes there is a problem, have a free month". One neighbour has apparently even been called 3 times by EE CS (or at least they tried, but the calls didn't work... guess why!)

EE needs to contact all those in the area (lookup by address would give the required list in minutes) and inform them of the issue, compensation and the plan to fix. That would be customer service.

my other point that there is a cell that is not working as well as it could, that might help, is still being ignored. I'm not a cellular specialist but I do work in datacomms : I am certain there is some value in at least doing a technical check on this cell . If that provides no option to improve it, fine, I'll stop banging on about it, but until someone does that I won't stop mentioning it.

The disappointing thing about this is you as EE knew this was going to happen and you didn’t contact your customer, why do I have to ring you for a refund this should be give without having to spend ages on the phone, it’s your fault you didn’t plan ahead.
wifi calling isn’t the best solution as it as poor as your phone signal.

I sent a private message, but unfortunately, I reached the daily sending limit. Upon investigating, I discovered a suspected rogue mast, estimated at "the swan.”. It seems to be an amateur installation and may not be properly permitted or logged. This mast has been detected since 2020 and appears to still be active. I don’t work for EE I’m just looking at data from my end (I can see some mast operations data / crowd sourced)

The power of this mast at MK17 8DZ is likely enough to drown out the signal at The Swan. It's likely that this mast has been overlooked / may continue to be, but if the owner is identified, they could face serious consequences. Just imagine the liability if a call to emergency services fails and leads to a preventable death given EEs remit here. This is the dangerous territory you enter when using unauthorized equipment.

Even if this rogue mast manages to extend its range, beyond say 50 steps (as it fights with the much more powerful genuine mast), it won't be able to handover calls properly, and the main site will cause interference, degrading service quality in the surrounding area.

The user who posted is served by the mast at MK17 8DZ, which provides signal on bands 1, 3, 7, and 20. They are well within the coverage of this mast, which means they will connect to the faster, higher frequency bands that don't have as wide of a range. This may result in lower signal bars, but faster data speeds compared to someone further away from the mast who may have more bars but slower data due to being on a lower frequency band.

O2 deployed their network at lower frequencies to achieve quicker coverage with fewer masts and lower costs. Users on O2 may see full bars more often, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will have reliable data connections. Don't focus too much on the signal bars.

In theory, the mast at MK17 8DZ should provide excellent coverage, even indoors. If you're experiencing a lack of indoor coverage, there may be issues with the mast. This is surprising considering its coverage extends as far as Waitrose Oakgrove.

Even outside of Waitrose, the nearby monopoles will struggle to provide a strong signal if the mast at MK17 8DZ is down in my opinion of what I can see. This is a significant outage, and it makes me wonder if it has been intermittent for some time.

I have a feeling the coverage is none inside the Waitrose, and maybe, 1 bar outside. If this is the case, it cements the theory that the mast is down.

Please report any issues here, selecting "check status" rather than "check coverage." A live fault should be visible, and even if it appears to have been recently fixed, it doesn't necessarily mean the problem is resolved. Report as "no service" for calls and select "always impacted" as this is a serious matter when calls don't work, especially for those with mobile care alarms. The more logs, the better. You can also sign up for alerts under "ee my places" to receive automatic notifications of any issues.

https://coverage.ee.co.uk/coverage/ee

I don’t work for EE and I have no affiliation to EE. So I cannot be sure in entirety, however I would say, the mast at MK17 8DZ is having issues and needs remedy. Once this happens your service should improve back to working indoors. I hope it improves more generally also as certainly there’s no reason for this area to be struggling for service.

There’s another site on Cranfield / Ridgway, MK17 8UR. In the ops case I highly doubt this will provide any service indoors for the op (original poster). It should be detectable outdoors, marginally.

To update at my end:

1. MYSTERY MAST:

I can’t find much on the mast that’s mounted at a 45 degree angle “officially.” I can see there has been a transmission detected as “unverified” and “potentially rogue” from as far back as an “estimated Q1 2020.” The “estimated” location is recorded as“The Swan,” which we know is where this exists. In 2020 there is a throughout rate estimated of 24Mbps per cell, and in 2020 estimated range is 100 to 200Mbps, so it seems to be speeding up. Perhaps it’s rotation sideways helped to give it some “oompth.”

Simply because there is ambiguity over the sites legitimacy does not necessarily indicate it’s unauthorised. As others have mentioned, there exists plausible scenarios otherwise. Considering the mast in todays state, I felt almost sure it was a DIY job, however the initial installation pictures appear more aligned to expectations. What I feel is quite clear is the current state, is unlikely to have been “planned” including the cabling to the transmit cells.

Irrespective I am somewhat perplexed by the installation.

2. SETTING UP YOUR OWN REPEATER:

PLEASE DO NOT install your own repeater using unapproved equipment. Most recently counter intelligence and counter surveillance has identified a number of rogue cell phone “towers,” both locally and within the USA. Once identified, a thorough investigation is required including painstakingly analysing frame by frame satellite imagery, and expensive enhancement of the frames to make them usable. This resulted in tracking a rogue repeater from where it came, they literally tracked it via the satellite imagery from China all the way into domestic territory; frame by frame.

The media reported on it almost immediately. It breaches the very fundamental liberties, to provide a person the right to privacy, within their private premises. The network has a duty to uphold these reasonable protections, and a repeater could be “capturing” every data packet flowing through, known as a “man in the middle attack.”

Now consider that EE is our chosen Emergency Services Network “ESN” provider, facilitating 999 calls for police, fire and ambulance. A patients medical data is one of their most personal, and protected data types. Hence, EE have a duty to ensure the integrity, and reliability of transmissions, where it concerns potentially life and death decision making, and real time communications are invaluable. In the case of a mystery repeater, I am unsure how the emergency services network could operate. Certainly, 999 calls cannot be repeated and potentially captured by an unknown party. Would they have to go offline? I have a feeling they would have no choice, and then, you get served, or even worse it may be criminal.

This is precisely why the only options available are to the high specification observed with an approved vendor, who can ensure the site is made known, operational and fit for purpose considering potential usage scenarios.

3. EE SIGNAL IN THE AREA (based on my own interpretation I am not affiliated or connected with the network in any shape or form).

Thanks for sharing your locality with me privately, based on this, the only feasible site that I can identity covering your location specifically is the mast at MK17 8DZ.

This provides signal on bands 1, 3, 7 and 20. The location provided to me, is well within the masts coverage to provide indoor and outdoor coverage on 2G, and 4G services. 3G also displays indoor/outdoor, however 3G is being turned off, due to complete UK wide in 2024, so I take 3G with a pinch of salt. To this point, where you are located is not marginally in the masts coverage as far as I can see, you are very well within coverage and hence unless you live in a panic room you SHOULD have coverage indoors.

At this time, I feel it’s reasonable to say the mast is not working as it should be. This may have been a sudden fault, or it may have been leading to service deterioration over some time, which may explain why there appears to be some service issues within the area itself.

Please report this to EE, highlighting you cannot make calls even in outdoor areas you usually can, with no service always. This is key as some people have mobile critical care alarms, so voice faults rightfully get priority. The more reports the more pressure.

HOWEVER, this site covers a large area. Hence I would be amazed if engineers were not already doing everything feasible to remedy. There can be multiple issues that mean, with all the will in the world, it takes time.

4. Response to your initial post: including a fear the mast has been turned off for good.

As far as I can tell. ABSOLUTELY NOT, this mast, serves a huge area, as far away as the Waitrose in Oakgrove and some connections observed around Speedwell. I mentioned the Waitrose as looking at the data and interpreting it myself, assuming the mast is not working at MK17 8DZ, I believe the Waitrose will be another dead spot, with no coverage inside and likely none or very bad coverage outside.

There’s also a number of schools and commercial premises who will have no indoor coverage.

This is not the remote countryside, such as the North Yorkshire Moors, you’re absolutely right to expect good indoor service in my opinion. There’s no feasible way that this mast can remain turned off, and meet coverage requirements, that would ever satisfy the regulator and oversight bodies for emergency services networks.

There’s another site on Cranfield / Ridgway, MK17 8UR. Whilst it may be closer to you, the site is extremely limited in terms of bands it transmits on, and it would not provide indoor service where you are. It may be a site that 3 purchased, which got swallowed into MBNL www.MBNL.co.uk

5. HOW TO ESCALATE:

Complain formally, as complaints are logged and reported into regulators. There are often times penalties for elevated complaints. There is a web form here:

https://ee.co.uk/contact-ee/complaint

Given this is impacting your business and detrimental at the scale it is, I would be tempted personally to google “ee ceo email” and write a strongly worded complaint. When the executives are asking engineers for updates, you know what’s happens.

Ok I got a bit confused here. There’s no actual cell tower even mapped on the most recent data, where is it?

so, I called a buddy.

I have a fairly reliable source that states the landowner demanded the mast be removed with years of turmoil over the legalities etc.

This has left the site offline, all whilst EE are at the start of planning stages. Apparently a temporary sites coming end of the year, estimated permanent new mast could be 2024. This is honestly dire, and amounts to a very solid reason to be released from the contract term, in my opinion.

I have only ever seen this happen with farms, not sure why, but they sure have a way of ending up at war with the mobile networks. Still, I’m REALLY shocked this IS NOT “some customers” this means entire towns must be offline, I’m trying to map it out and I suspect nothing in Woburn not even on the high street, nothing in parts north of the town, into potentially Woburn Sands. Likely speedwell offline. & then plenty of schools, and even into the more city side.

I am honestly somewhat amazed, I suspect they’re trying to do some tweaks to get coverage to slither into as many parts of the area as possible.

The local MP should be involved with this. I feel EE should be deploying air masts until the temporary mast is in play. This mast was not a small one.

I’d go to the ombudsman personally.

Further info I can find on it. Apparently there’s one mast which is thinner which is legacy. That’s going yes. There’s another mast next to it which is for LTE. That’s not gone.

Apparently, both masts are still standing but the old ones going and is off. I believe 3G?

Can anyone confirm the actual height of this thing? I’ve heard “it’s not that tall.” Yet the range predictions make you think it’s something really substantial…