1.6Gbit connection new smart hub (white, small box) sporadic issues? DNS MITM?

[allamavortex]

Hello all,

So I recently changed my service from 900mbit to 1.6Gbit and that involved a change of router and obviously the OR ONT on the wall.

Ever since having it installed there seems to be an issue with (most likely DNS issues). Whatever is loaded/playing/game continue to work, but I have spells where NO further DNS requests seem to make it through.

I totally forgot to nslookup during one of these issues, but I will the next time it happens (it's pretty frequent and annoying). I can ping 8.8.8.8 (google) whilst being unable to load any webpages on any device/browser. Thus removing the possibility of it being localised to a single machine/device as some were using the router, some were set to DNS over HTTPS and some were using Google's 8.8.8.8 etc. 

It is very much like the router is playing the MITM and intercepting the requests and then slowly, or failing to process these requests at all for a period of time which ranges up to about 45 seconds.

As I said, cached requests, or those already in process are fine, but even something as trivial as trying to watch a YT video is met with 45 seconds of nothing, totally unable to look up ANY address, but established connections and new connections not requiring DNS all work fine.

I'm not really one for conspiracies but I really feel like this new router is intercepting (MITM), attempting to do something with, and failing the DNS requests. This behaviour is only been present since getting the new Smart Hub (the tall, thing white one).

I did a quick google and it seems I'm not alone with this - is anyone else noticing this type of behavior?

Mixture of wired and wireless devices, same behaviour.

[Dime]

Not meaning to change the subject but can I ask - when you recently went from 900Mbit to 1.6Gbit was the upgrade to the ONT booked in automatically for you? Did EE realise it needed doing before you could get the faster service? I'm strongly considering doing the same as you and worry that no one is going to realise I need new kit and then I get into some crazy back and forth with customer services. Cheers.

[XRaySpeX]

@Dime : Of course EE will realise this & instruct OR accordingly.

[TraderTravel]

@allamavortex What you write makes no sense. If you have your own DNS/DHCP setup, the hub is not involved and is simply routing packets. As you rightly state, if you use a normal ping of an IP address without using a domain, it does seem fine, suggesting the issues are related to the code running the DNS capability on the hub (who knows what proprietary code they have used...).

As mentioned elsewhere, the DNS crapping itself out caused me so many issues I switched over a handy Raspberry Pi this afternoon and have run dnsmasq on it to take over from the hub. I've also switched off the hub's DNS/DHCP capabilities. I will monitor over the next 24 hours and see how things go, but so far, as soon as I switched everything over to the new setup (including a full power down of all devices), everything feels significantly snappier. Using dnsmasq and setting everything to Cloudflare (both with IPv4 and IPv6) seems to have really speeded up my network. I've also noticed my wifi speeds on Wifi 6 devices has increased suggesting taking a few tasks off the EE equipment seems to help.

Look, I acknowledge there are core issues with the product, and that 99% of users won't be willing to do what I have done today. We also know there are a lot of other firmware related issues, e.g. Apple devices connected to an extender via ethernet seem to go very very slow (I have another thread out there discussing this issue). Also the compatible wifi setup is poor at best (switches 2.4ghz channels even when it is no longer set to smart). Also the backhaul ethernet seems a little shot at times.

Overall it's clear that the team responsible for the hub and extender firmware have serious quality control issues. Sadly this is fairly common in 'ISP land' and why I would normally just go 3rd party. Unfortunately, I don't really want to pay a huge amount to go to Ubiquity, especially whilst looking at the forums. Ubiquity also have firmware issues with a lot of their new wifi 7 kit, as well as concerns with some access points about heat related issues. I therefore don't want to drop a grand or more on new kit and find I have a new set of problems to deal with. In some ways, sticking with the EE kit and doing a bit of creative solutioning seems the right way to go at least in the short term.

[allamavortex]

Let us know how you go, because I also did the same and I think I posted somewhere below that it seemed better with my own setup, but today it's still on and off. I'm not really sure what would cause it to have issues with routing some packets and not others, because that's essentially all it's doing. With the router having the responsibility of DNS and DHCP taken away from it, I hoped that would fix it.

The information I've given so far is my experience and totally valid, but please do let us know if you start having issues again, hopefully not.

The new HUB will be here probably tomorrow but I'm not expecting much.

To be honest, if it could just act as a wireless access point, that would be better so people can still take advantage of WiFi 7. Funny you mention UB as I was just looking at some of their mesh systems etc on Scan.

If the new hub is doing the same thing then I'll buy something third party, but as you say, in the mean time it might be a case of jerry rigging stuff together. @TraderTravel 

Edit: I had the DNS servers setup to use CF and Quad9. Also tried DNS over HTTPS but that carries the same issue.

[Britboy4321]

OK so I got my new router about the literal same day as you and EXACTLY the same thing is happening to me 100% to the letter.  I'm not as technical as you but I'm ok.  Any NEW website takes so long to connect it's unbelievable - yup, ranging up to about 45 seconds.  Then once the DNS address is 'cached' and the machine knows the IP, it's fine.

So if on my browser I went to Strava.com for the first time (not cached), then immediately started pinging it in a separate window:

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com
Ping request could not find host strava.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\Users\Dave>ping strava.com

Pinging strava.com [18.165.242.69] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 18.165.242.69: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=248
Reply from 18.165.242.69: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=248
Reply from 18.165.242.69: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=248

I am still within my 14 day 'cooling off' period and am very close to simply cancelling altogether.  Or maybe I'll buy a completely new router and try that.

Oh by the way CHANGING TO DYNAMIC DNS WITHIN THE ROUTER and choosing no-ip DOESN'T FIX THIS.  

[allamavortex]

Hey,

@Britboy4321 

Looks like the same problem we're all seeing.

It's 100% a router issue, if I connect the 'old' router, it's fine. It seems to be an issue with the Smart Hub Pro.

Dynamic DNS is something else, it's essentially a service you can connect to that keeps your IP linked to a hostname so you can access it from outside your network eg. dave.no-ip.org as that's a lot easier to remember than an IP address, but also if your IP address isn't static that's where the hostname comes in.. So all DDNS does is essentially update your public IP address so you can remote in easier.

[Britboy4321]

To be honest you're like my saving grace - I thought I was going mad as a less techy person -- especially when after it's cached 'all is perfect what am I moaning about'.

I'm now going to re-read all your posts slowly but THANKYOU - there is not a lot of info on this out there.  I am 100% with you all the way and have 100% the same thing going on.  I have different routers I'll try tomorrow and report back.

100% precisely the same as you.  I bet there are THOUSANDS of people out there suffering the same but thinking it's normal.

[Britboy4321]

@Trader65 Thankyou hugely for you massive assistance with this.  I got my hub at the same time as you, and I have exactly the same issues 100%.

I'm going to tell you some information you already know.  I have just unplugged the EE router and plugged in my old BT hub 2 and it immediately works 100% perfectly, DNS and all.  It feels SO FRESH AND NICE just being served the web pages I want straight away 😞  

Now I have to make a hard decision - do I stick with paying for 1.6g but never experiencing it (hub2 only has 1g ports) - or do I buy some third party router with 2.5g ports?   One thing is for sure - that EE router is frankly FINISHED in my eyes - it's wasted a few evenings of my life and that's enough for me it's not getting plugged in again unless I read the issue is definitely firmware patched.

One more question for you .. I am MEDIUM OK at tech.  If I buy any old third party router (I only need 'wifi 5') (that has 2.5g ports so I can actually enjoy my 1.6 through ethernet cable) ... do you think I'd be able to set it up ok as a 'normal bloke'?  I know about IP addresses, how to log in to the router, what DNS is, but I'm 30% your level -- what do you reckon?

[allamavortex]

@Britboy4321  Did you tag the wrong person? I don't see them in the thread, they might be a bit confused ;).

I'm glad that your old router works as intended, as that's the exact behaviour I also saw.

You'd be fine to setup a 3rd party router, it's really not difficult, and many comes with a setup guide/wizard and if you're struggling, you wouldn't be the first so you'd be able to ask for help or check YT for people who also made videos on installing it, etc.

Your call really, depends what you want to spend? I'm probably going to buy the Ubiquiti Dream Router 7 or the Express 7 (UX7). The dream router does a little more than the UX7 but there is almost £100 difference in the price.

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/53333-ubiquiti-ux7/
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/53335-ubiquiti-udr7/

The UX7 comes with a 10Gbit ethernet port and a single 2.5Gbit ethernet port, and also has WIFI-7.
The Dream router comes with a 10g SFP port (fibre) and 4, 2.5Gbit ethernet ports and WIFI-7.

I was originally looking at the Dream Router 7, but going over the specs it seems silly to have 10Gbit WAN but ethernet only up to 2.5Gbit. With that being said my sync rate is 2.44Gbit, so even if they released higher speeds, my assumption would be that is the next highest bracket they might consider and 1.6Gbit really is overkill as it is.

Presumably you could buy the Ubiquiti mesh systems to extend the WIFI-7 to where you need speeds in excess of 2.5Gbit.

I personally only have one device on the ethernet to my office and that is my work PC, but the extra ports of the Dream Router 7 might persuade me, as if I want to use more ethernet ports in the future I'd need a switch and I bet I'd struggle to find a decent one for the price difference between the two routers I've mentioned in here.

One final thought - One of the benefits, and this might not apply to you at this stage is that some of the other consumer routers allow you to flash custom firmware so you could install one of the many router/firewall distros you can find online.

I think a WIFI 6/7 router would be a 'nice to have' if you could spend a little more, just because if you ever go wirelessly you're going to be sharing that space with fewer people, and lets be honest when we buy a router we want to set it up and forget it without having to consider changing it again the following year due to a speed increase or something.

[Britboy4321]

Thanks again.  Yea tagged some random dude!

I think I will go for a router with some faster ports on it as having .6 ghtz of my 1.6ghtz I'm paying for just 100% wasted would just grind my gears 🙂  .  Yea and will probably push it to WIFI 6 though not bothered about wifi 7 because I've read it's got severe range complications (I live in a large house).

The final piece of this chess puzzle - EE also gave me a RANGE EXTENDER.  I wonder if this is somehow hardware locked to only work with the rubbish EE router?  I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can wring some use out of just the range extender hardware EE sent me by getting the extender thing working with the 3rd party router.  Unless you reply saying 'Not a hope mate don't even bother trying'  🙂

I know I've said it 3 times, but thanks for all this.  I felt like EE was gaslighting me when it kept telling me web pages were unavailable followed 25 seconds later with  'Only joking mate - here is it'!!!!