4g and 5g downlink speeds question?

[Sfarrer]

Hi all, I currently have a 4g Huawei Mate 20 pro. I am on a 5g sim only plan but still with a 4g sim. What is the network max I could get over 4g? If I put I 5g sim in my 4g phone, would I get higher speeds?

I have been unhelpfully informed by EE Twitter that 4g highest downlink speed is 30mbps, yet I have been recieving 75mbps for years. So thought I would ask here as whoever runs to social media channels has no idea. 

Thanks in advance.

[EssexBoyEE]

Hi @Sfarrer as others have mentioned there are just too many variables in 4G technology to be definitive on any LTE Network speeds.

What I can add is your phone the Mate 20 Pro series is a very capable as it's a CAT21 Spec, 1.4Gbs DL / 200Mbs UL.

EEs Network can support in certain Prime Mast locations, up to 750 to 850mbs on 4G+ (LTE A, with Multi CA and 4x4 MiMo) but your never really going to see anything close to these speeds in real terms.

From my experience, best I've seen on EE 4G+ is around 430mbs DL and 150mbs UP, and that was sitting in Pub in Chingford a few Years back using  a SonyXZ Premium (CAT16) but again these speeds are well above the average overall. 

[mikeliuk]

Hi @Chris_B ,

No. 😀

I think the theoretical for the MR1100 might actually be much higher and will need to double check the specs. The headline number is easy to find but filling the other drop-downs will be a pain.

I can attempt a worked example in case it helps. I've got this device:

https://store.netgear.co.uk/product/mr1100-100eus

Apparently it's a Cat 16, 4x4 MIMO.

256QAM down/64QAM up https://community.netgear.com/t5/Mobile-Routers-Hotspots-Modems/difference-in-Nighthawk-M2-MR2100-am...

LTE-A theoretical notes: https://www.4g-lte.net/lte/lte-lte-lte-advanced/

Anyone know where I can discover the channel width/bandwidth in use as I don't seem to see this in the MR1100 management pages? https://www.4g-lte.net/about/lte-frequency-bands/

Let's assume 20 MHz for the moment, and then I see 391.6Mbps ↓ & 75Mbps ↑

[EssexBoyEE]

I'm afraid the the Speed Calculator that @mikeliuk has posted up will offer limited or no benefit the OP.

The Calculator requires extra information, for LTE Advance inputs, like additional  number of Carrier Aggregation Frequencies, available or given Bandwidts from the Masts,, QAM and MiMo type.

You would need to be in position to have access to some good Diagnosis Tools at your disposal and an informed understanding of LTE Networks.

[Chris_B]

  @EssexBoyEE  I think it’s of the no benefit at all side. 😆    And there’s proof on the last comment back to me of “let’s assume”    

[mikeliuk]

The band doesn't really impact the output of the calculator (keeping all else constant). The rest is looking up a data sheet.

Previously the MR1100 preferred B3 and B7 but now almost always goes for B1 post-update.

Mobile phones are much better with apps to extract more information (e.g. CA) than stock router firmware. As mentioned, the OpenSignal app is going to be better for real world empirical data. 🤓

Here's a table of channel bandwidths in case anyone is not being flippant: https://halberdbastion.com/intelligence/mobile-networks/ee-uk

Below are absolute best cases for upper bounds. Some combinations may be invalid. A first approximation to CA would be to assume 100% efficiency.

LTE Band	Channel bandwidth	Downlink	Uplink	MIMO	Estimate
B1 (2100 MHz)	15 MHz	256QAM	64QAM	4x4	293.7Mbps ↓ & 56.25Mbps ↑
B3 (1800 MHz)	20 MHz	256QAM	64QAM	4x4	391.6Mbps ↓ & 75Mbps ↑
B3 (1800 MHz)	10 MHz	256QAM	64QAM	4x4	195.8Mbps ↓ & 37.5Mbps ↑
B7 (2600 MHz)	20 MHz	256QAM	64QAM	4x4	391.6Mbps ↓ & 75Mbps ↑
B7 (2600 MHz)	15 MHz	256QAM	64QAM	4x4	293.7Mbps ↓ & 56.25Mbps ↑

Errors and omissions excepted.

Thought I would look up the Huawei Mate 20 Pro and this took a bit of finding: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13503/the-mate-20-mate-20-pro-review

Cellular

Kirin 980 Integrated LTE (Category 21/18) DL = 1400 Mbps 4x4 MIMO 3x20MHz CA, 256-QAM (5CA no MIMO) UL = 200 Mbps 2x2 MIMO 1x20MHz CA, 256-QAM

[bristolian]

In an effort to keep to a more straightforward answer than the previous poster prefers, the frequency bands in use do dictate the amounts of radio spectrum in use.

And that affects the speeds attainable, along with a multitude of other factors.

[mikeliuk]

Hi @bristolian ,

Feel free to submit a bug report.

[mikeliuk]

For people hitting this ticket in a search with a serious interest in the topic, I thought I would leave a reference to explain why the carrier band doesn't entering into the calculation.

https://www.techplayon.com/lte-fdd-system-capacity-and-throughput-calculation/

There's also the white paper "Throughput Calculation for LTE TDD and FDD System".

Obviously carrier frequency does impact transmission which might come into play for second order approximations.

A layman's explanation I thought of was that the carrier is only indirectly related to signalling. Assume you want to use Morse code for signalling and use both a high-frequency UV light and a low frequency infra-red light. The UV and IR carrier frequencies are incidental to the Morse code signalling. Yes, UV signalling into the atmosphere might be attenuated, and IR might be reflected signalling out of our atmosphere, but it's the frequency of the Morse code signalling that impacts throughput and not the frequency of the carrier when conditions are ideal for both carriers.

[EssexBoyEE]

@mikeliuk UV Light, IR Light transmitting Morse Code in and out of the Atomoshere?, I dont understand how that can be related or a comparison to LTE Carrier Aggregation.

[mikeliuk]

Many EM frequencies are suitable as a carrier. The signal is encoded with some modulation.

No claim was made about a relation to carrier aggregation, but as you've pointed it out, both UV and IR signals can be superimposed to demonstrate carrier aggregation where the two carriers are UV and IR. The data rate is doubled in the ideal case: two streams of Morse code.

Morse code was only mentioned as an easy to understand encoding. 3GPP standards can be taken instead, if you want.