Exhuasted with BT/EE support for Digital Phone CLI issues

[adrianmarsh]

Just sharing our story with EE/BT so far:

I moved my mum from a working PSTN/FTTC Plus.net connection over to the new fiber connectivity.  We started the process in January but Openreach failed to turn up twice and then turned up at a bad time unannounced.  Eventually we got there in May.

The setup inside the house seemed to go fairly smoothly.  It wasn't until a few days after we realised that Calling Line Identity wasn't working.

The setup:   A BT Paragon 500 phone into the back of the EE Smarthub Plus 7 (physically to the BT socket on the hub).  A BT 4500 DECT base unit connected via an EE supplied Wifi adapter, with 3 hand units.

We noticed that 9/10 incoming calls would just show as "incoming call", no number.  But, just occasionally the number will show, so it's not 100% failure.

Outgoing calls seem to work just fine, and incoming audio calls work, most of the time.  However I have seen where I answered the call on one dect phone, and the other phones kept ringing.  The main issue though is the CLI.

I'm exhausted talking to BT.  I've spent hours on the phone with them repeating the same tests, the same arguments.  At least 6 calls now, usually 1-2 hours per call. It takes that long to finally be put through to "New IT Tech".. who then go to a team called the "offline team", who you can't talk to at all and don't listen to the facts.

We've reset the hub, we've factory rebooted it, they've taken CLI features off of the account and added them back on.

During all of this, the support people have told me privately that the new Digital Phone system has multiple issues, in its management systems and in the backend of it.  One even offered to cancel our contract and move us to an "older" system, which would mean replacing the hub and changing contract.. but all to get away from the "new system".

Yesterday, despite telling me there's nothing wrong with the hub - they're now sending me a new hub.  Except, I don't live there and so its a 400 mile round trip to go an replace/setup a hub, that probably won't fix their issue.

And the repeated claim from some of the support teams:  "It's your phones... they're too old".   Weird, because up until the move, both phones worked perfectly fine on PSTN CLI.  I've has some of the engineerings agree with me that it's not the phones, but some insist it absolutely is.  And they really don't like when I argue back that, even if it IS the phones, these are BT phones, working to standards that BT implemented, and claims to support in Digitial Phone.

I've now hit a wall with BT support.  if the new hub doesn't fix the issue, I don't know where this goes.

What's interesting.. one of the engineers, kindly, sent us a Battery backup, and in that package is a wifi-based phone.  And, on that, the CLI shows correctly for every incoming call at the same time the other phones don't.  So if that phone can show it, but the phones working via adapters/plugging into the back don't, to me, that would indiciate the issue is with the hub, or more directly, the hub software.  That also helps confirm that it's not an EE/BT network issue, as the CLI must be getting to the hub for the wifi phone to work.

But the BT Support engineers are adament that the hub software is bug free and works 100% of the time.

They also insist that I'll have to replace the phones, at our own cost, never mind the fact that the phones work fine and it seems clear it's the new system at fault.  They actually argued with me yesterday that both phones, two different models must of failed, at exactly the same time, with exactly the same CLI symptom, coincidentially at the same time as we moved to the new hub and setup..  it couldn't possibly be the fault of the hub.  I'm flabergasted bt that response and conclusion, with no evidence to support it.  We ended up ending the call as both I and the support agent weren't getting anywhere and they kept insisting they couldn't do any more (perhaps pass up to the team that the hub has a bug?)

I guess I now have to wait and see for when the new hub arrives and test with that, and try to find a friend/neighbour still with a PSTN connection so I can prove the old phones work just fine.

I'm bitterly disappointed with the whole experince so far.

For the forum:  If anyone knows if there's a list of what phones are/not supported, that'd be useful.  We were told originally that 99.9% of all phones will work just fine.

[adrianmarsh]

Hi All - suddely a bunch of messages appeared above that I hadn't seen before - thankyou all for the help/advice .. really appreciated.  I'll try to give some answers as best I can:

- Yes, both the BT4500 and the BT paragon worked perfectly fine on the old POTS setup (copper wire).  No problems at all until we switched over.

- With both the BT4500 and the BT paragon plumbed in - both show the same results equally.  If CLI fails, both fail, if it works, both work.

- the last call I did on Friday to EE, the lady started quoting phone models.. but she didn't tell me where that came from.  I've asked both BT and EE for a list several times.   During the call, she was mostly using google.  She was trying to be helpful of course. I think I'll phone back to EE again and try to get a list again.. or at least get them to confirm if the model I end up buying will work or not.

I'll try to summarise the setups I've tried and tested:

SETUP 1
- Paragon 500 plumbed into the EE hub BT socket.  BT 4500 base via the wireless converter.
SETUP2
- Paragon 500 taken out of the equation. BT 4500 base via the EE hub BT socket with 3 handsets
SETUP3
- Paragon 500 unplumbed. BT 4500 base via the EE Hub BT socket. 2 handsets to the 4500 base, 1 handset directly connected DECT to the EE hub. I also tried 2 handsets connected directly.

CLI repeatedly and randomly fails in all 3 setups on the BT Paragon 500 and the BT 4500s, unless the BT4500 handsets are registered directly to the EE hub itself in SETUP3.   In SETUP3, the handset on the EE hub worked, whilst the BT4500 handset connected to the 4500 base didn't.

It seems that as soon as a conversion happens (either physical BT socket, or adapter), then thats where the problems come in for either phone.  As the CLI works on the 4500 handset if directly connected to the EE hub, then it wouldn't seem to be a handset issue. It'd seem to be some messaging issue between the hub and the Paragon/4500 Base..

As it happens on both the Paragon and 4500 base, which are connected via different paths, that also seemed to rule out any cabling issue.   And I tried switching the 4500 base between the wireless adaptor and the BT port on the back of the hub - same inconsistent results.

The other aspect is - this isn't consistent. It'll work occasionally, and fail a lot of the time.  It's not 100% either way with no changes in the physical setup.  And it can change in seconds..  I'll be testing and have CLI failing.. then magically the next ones work.

Like most elderly, Mum doesn't like change.  So if I could figure out and fix why it intermittently fails, keeping the 4500s would work best as she knows them. I can convince her to forget the Paragon.

But given that it's intermittent, I think it's something software based in the hub.  But BT/EE won't hear it.

Problems with each setup, besides the CLI:

SETUP1 -  If this worked, would be ideal, no downside
SETUP2 - Again, if this worked would also be okay. Losing the Paragon isn't a breaker
SETUP3 - Seems to solve the CLI issue - but then introduces new problems and I tried it (no shared Address Book - each handset would have to have each number programmed in, no Call List history on the handsets).

I did think about registering the 3 handsets direct to the EE hub, and using the BT4500 base as an answerphone. But then you could only pickup/delete messages from the base, not the handsets.

Alternatively and simply because I've exhausted all options I can think of, if I replace both phones with something new -  The BT Premimum here I think is only one of two phones I've seen BT advertise.  It fits all mums needs (though she's concerned about the screen size being small.. I've measured and I think it matches or is bigger than the 4500 screen. Sadly the spec sheet just says 1.8" and not if its width or height.. so I assume diagonal).

What's interesting for the BT premium is it says it works with "all networks".   So.. is that going to need plugging the base unit into the back of the EE hub BT socket - or - is it going to natively do something with DECT (and then.. does the built in answerphone work).  Even that new phone setup isn't clear about what will/won't work.

I'm also time-limited.. as I don't live here... and this is the second trip home I've made to try and get it sorted out with EE/BT travelling hundreds of miles - hence the high frustration with BT/EE.

[JimM11]

@adrianmarsh Also have a look at https://ligo.co.uk/ good on phones and styles also, no hassle when they don't work as expected and good if you wish to discuss.

[XRaySpeX]

If it wasn't generally true, peeps would be up in arms going from analogue to DV at having to throw millions of traditional analogue connected phones away. It can't be that only the dedicated BT DECT Digital Home Phone handset connecting to the DECT base station incorporated in the router that shows Caller ID.

The BT Premium that you are looking at is no diff from the BT 4500 or Paragon that you have. It is not specifically for DV. It is an analogue connected phone that plugs into router or ATA. Of course you can use the handsets freestanding just like the BT 4500's DECT connected to the router's base station.

No, your problem isn't the model of phone you are using but the set up of DV on your line.

As a last desperate measure, have you Factory Reset the router (not just rebooting)?

[JimM11]

@adrianmarsh It's going to be either just get something and try it see how it all goes, and if you have any issues send them back, the Full Factory reset is well worth a try, can be a painful exercise, or real straight forward all depends were the system is at before you make the start on that rabbit hole. 

If it was me, would ditch the DVA completely, get rid off the paragon also, wire the BT4500 answering base direct into the back off the EE Hub with all the handsets paired back to the BT4500 base, make sure the phone is as far away as the cable will allow stretch wise from the EE Hub and see how that all goes. If needed would also try an old ADSL filter between Hub/Landline as another test.