Gfast, EE, Disconnects from the WAN Side

[XRaySpeX]

Posted in the open:

@Trillian796 wrote:

This is going to sound crazy. But if you forget the 2.4G wifi network (and keep the 5G SSID), especially if you have an IPhone SE(2020) then the disconnects reduce dramatically.

sorry for the PM spam but also meant to say. You can leave the 2.4 SID running/broadcasting so can be used by other devices. Just don't have the IPhones using it.

Not just EE, tons of reports on BT Retail.

[XRaySpeX]

@Trillian796 : That's right! Apples in particular are not happy with combined WiFi bands of the EE Smart Router..

With the white EE Smart Router, unlike the black EE Smart Hub, you cannot separate the wireless bands/SSIDs. The most you can do is to temporarily disable the 5 GHz band & move off the Smart channel while connecting problematic 2.4 GHz devices.

I doubt you are getting discons WAN-side but on LAN-side, unless you really meant WLAN.

[Trillian796]

Everything below is for a Gfast product, Extremely long post !! 

Sorry should have said - original setup was for Gfast : 

white smart router (which did have the config for seperate SSID's for 2.4 & 5G along with the ability to turn them off individually. (although I am not convinced that it did disable them as it was still scanning channels)) both WIFI channel off  and my own ASUS router running 2.4G & 5G WIFI (separate SSID's) and a develo powerline adapter plugged into the EE Smart router. EE BB since 2013 - upgraded to FFTC (Gfast) in April 2021 as Husband works from home and the speed was causing issues. He has had problems with WIFI for several years on both work and personal phones. Everything worked fine until Sept 15th 2021. Then it went haywire all day. The following day it was fine but then every night between 12.30am and 3.30am, the connection to the EE smart router would drop and the light go orange and then it would reconnect and go green and then repeat. This would be anything up to 100 cycles in a three hour period.

Had engineers out including Rein and Shine specialists - line fully tested, new smart router, new faceplate on the socket, made sure all new wire to the property, and inside to the faceplate. Still dropped repeatedly. Had the port changed in the cabinet then the issue became intermittent. Would drop multiple times at any point for any length of time but might work for up to 10 days at a time. So we got rid of the powerline adapter and used a hard wired connection (yep cable up the wall to the far corner of the house, until it proved better. Then under the floor) - this did improve the connection somewhat but was still happening just fewer times each time it did go.  Yes there was double NAT but one was configured for a 192.168.2 and one for a 192.168.1 network so not clashing and the DNS was sent through to the 192.168.1 network. 

Still issues so we were provided with a modem to try and we bought a new third party router-only device (I researched to ensure it would meet our needs.) All set up and working  (a note: I set the VLAN to 101 + autoconfig setup and for 5 hours tried to get it to work, nothing. Came across a post on a forum from someone who said they just used a username/pass and autoconfig - worked first time !!). 

So new setup is a modem and an ASUS router for the 2.4G and 5G wifi - multiple disconnects a day. But only one at a time at any point , so down for a few mins. 10 mins normally at the most. Annoying but bearable.  Something I came across when researching why the config for the ASUS router wasn't working was a list on ASUS website about WIFI 2.4G interfaces and AX support routers and the drivers needing to be updated. 

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1037422.

On reading the logs for the new router I noticed the errors before a disconnect and a modem hangup were always re-auth attempts from the same 2 MAC addresses. I remembered the ASUS article and checked laptops in the house expecting them to be the culprit but not the same id's. So moved on to phones. Checked my phone (I had a gut feeling it was the 2.4 interface based on what I had read), mine was not one of them (I have an IPhone SE(2016) then Husbands personal phone it was the 2.4G interface on his personal phone, checked his work phone the second mac causing issues was his work phone 2.4G - both his home & work phone were SE (2020).  So got him to forget the 2.4G network on both phones leaving just the 5G to be able to connect to. The 2.4G is still running on the router so other devices can use it. The multiple drops a day went down to one every 4 days or so at 3am and WIFI on husbands phone now works all the time. He often used to turn it off for days because it was so bad, where as I had no issues in the same places in the house where he did, all IPhone SE's one 2016 & two 2020. Both 2020 models had issues. The whole wifi system seems more stable, faster, less buffering simply by dropping this network from 2 phones. If you do a search you will find that there are multiple posts in different forums about the 2020 SE and 2.4 & 5G simultaneous systems, add bluetooth turned on, in to the mix as well and it seems to get a bit messy.   Further research indicated that the iPhone SE (2020) supports 802.11ax WiFi 6 with 2x2 MIMO, same as with the iPhone 11 line - IPhones before this didn't support WIFI6 or 802.11ax. I have also turned off AX support on my router as I found that the 5G started using the AX support for those phones.

I don't work for BT/EE or ASUS or Apple  etc. So have no access to the way things have been implemented etc. But I did work as a software tester for more than 10 years on complex systems used by enterprises. I have gone as far as I can go but this is what I have found out from my personal testing and talking to the BT openreach and EE guys/girls.

1)The DLM (piece of software in the cabinet in the street) tries to get the line stable by dropping it and changing parameters and reconnecting it. It will do this repeatedly if it still feels it is unstable (I don't know how it judges this) just that it does. It monitors the line downstream from the cabinet ie. into the home and the wifi connections etc 

2)Problems with the WIFI connections on your router, will affect your incoming connection because of the DLM.  I had no wifi error message on the devices used. The access to the internet for all devices would just go.   

3) Gfast seems to have a problem with WIFI 6 (AX) support especially on the 2.4G interface of the IPhone. 

4) The issue never seems to present on initial connection of the device but on re-authentication of the device. Such as leaving the house and coming home again, or inactivity. 

5) The IPhone and the devolo powerline have something in common - they both power save on the wifi. From what I have read the IPhone saves power by doing something with the WIFI connection when it is on the lock screen inactive. The devolo powerline adapter power saves, again doing something with the connection to the smart router. You have two plugs, each has an LED, the first starts red when you plug in and connect it to the router by an ethernet cable.  Then you plug in the second plug and press the correct buttons on the plugs and both lights go green. Then you have a connection. Which works fine and no internet issues at all. At some point later, doing a check on the EE Smart router (when it was running previously, its not anymore)  the powerline adapter would be greyed out as a device indicating it was not an active connection but both lights would still be green. I haven't checked it on the new system as we now have a 25M cable under the floor (and hubby has a sore shoulder).

I now have a single sync drop every 4 days or so at 3am ish. Which is a vast improvement over the 100 drops over a 3 hour period, or random periods of drops at any time of the day.  Also hubby has had WIFI 5G switched on, on his phone for over a week and I haven't heard one complaint about the WIFI or more accurately the problems with the WIFI. Before : my IPhone SE 2016 - same location as his, my WIFI works, his didn't, yep same SSID too. Now: Both work more effectively, stable, less buffering etc. The difference in the WIFI was noticeable almost immediately on the IPhone SE(2020).

A few days later, got the SE(2020) to remember the 2.4G SSID and connect to it. Later in the day multiple disconnects from the incoming system because the 'serial line appears to be disconnected' . Remove it from the device and it all seems to be ok again. 

These are my experiences. I have seen so many posts on forums about these disconnects from the line coming in (gfast) and investigations on the outside line etc. wasting our time and the engineers time. My two suggestions : 

- get rid of any powerline adapters - hardwired ethernet cables if the WIFI can't reach

- Try forgetting the 2.4G network on any IPhone 11 (including the SE (2020) ) and above.  ONLY if you can split the wifi into the two SSID's, the EE smart hub we had had the settings to do it but as I was using my own Third party one, I never tried it with theirs.   Just make sure you know the password/passphrase for the 2.4G SSID WIFI so you can added it again if it makes no difference.

Apologies for the extra long post !!! But I am hoping I can save someone some time/agro with this post as there appear to be lots of questions and very few answers out there about these Gfast issues. It's a fairly easy test.

[Trillian796]

My guess as to what happened on Sept 15 2021 is that as hubby had issues with the WIFI speed for so long he had turned WIFI off on the phones. Then when I said we had a better system now, he turned on the WIFI. Only a guess, and I can't remember exactly when I told him to turn WIFI back on, and never thought to try turning it off before the modem/new router was in place. The log files are more verbose in the third party router and it is easier to see what is happening now that the EE smart router is not getting in the way. 

[XRaySpeX]

TLDR but:

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@Trillian796 wrote:

1)The DLM (piece of software in the cabinet in the street) tries to get the line stable by dropping it and changing parameters and reconnecting it. It will do this repeatedly if it still feels it is unstable (I don't know how it judges this - you don't so don't guess) just that it does. It monitors the line downstream from the cabinet ie. into the home and the wifi connections etc 

2)Problems with the WIFI connections on your router, will affect your incoming connection because of the DLM.  I had no wifi error message on the devices used. The access to the internet for all devices would just go. 

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The DLM doesn't & can't monitor your WiFi LAN & the devices connected to it. It knows no further than your modem on the line.

Have a read of FTTC DLM - What it is & How it works.