Failing To Withhold Outbound Caller ID...

[nssimpson]

Hi Everyone

I have a phone running Android v10. Android/EE allows users to dial 141 followed by the number so caller ID is withheld.

This has worked every time I've tested it by calling other mobiles, our home phone number and my business 0345 number (using VOIP).

Yesterday I called an online stationery shop (0333 number) and wanted to withhold my number. I dialled 141 followed by the number.

At the end of the call the shop read back my mobile number!

I called EE tech support yesterday and the chap I spoke to went away to check. He has just called me back but clearly didn't know for sure how this all works. He said that the shop I called must be using some kind of computer-based phone system that can circumvent me using 141 to withhold the number. WHAT?!?!?!

He then went on to suggest that going into the phone settings and withholding caller ID that way instead should work. Surely 141 should be just as reliable (or unreliable) as setting it permanently within the phone settings.

Can anyone on here explain to me why 141 doesn't always work when calling a regular number (it wasn't the emergency services after all)? Surely a message should play to say "caller ID can't be blocked" so I have the chance to hang up.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Nick

[Chris_B]

@nssimpson  if the shop you called is using software to capture phone numbers that are blocked then it will best to call that shop and ask them to explain themselves on why they capturing your number that is blocked.       

Computer software is ever evolving so it sounds like they have software that can read a blocked number.  

[nssimpson]

But surely if you tell EE to withhold the number by dialling 141 there should be no way for a regular business to work around this.

[BrendonH]

141 isn't a feature run by EE. It's just a feature you can use.

You can set your number to private within your phone settings This would be more reliable.

[bristolian]

Hi @nssimpson 

There are legitimate circumstances when the recipient of a call is permitted to override a withheld number, but in this situation, the user of that number appears to be contravening the regulations.

Whether you use the 141-prefix to withhold, or the phone's menu, is immaterial. The end result within the network signalling protocols, is the same.

I recommend a read of this ICO giudance page - you appear to have grounds for complaint.

[Chris_B]

@bristolian   That’s a very interesting read. Especially this part 

Malicious or nuisance calls

The rules about malicious or nuisance calls are in regulation 15. If a customer asks you to trace malicious or nuisance calls, you can override the caller’s request to withhold their number – but you must be satisfied that your actions are ‘necessary and expedient’ to trace a malicious or nuisance call.

You can also provide information about the caller’s identity to anyone with a ‘legitimate interest’ (this is not defined, but is likely to include the police or a regulatory body, as well as the customer receiving the calls).

However, you should still be cautious with requests for information about a caller’s identity. For example, if you are not satisfied that the caller has actually been making malicious or nuisance calls, it may not be fair or appropriate to reveal their identity to the customer receiving the calls. But it may still be appropriate to pass their identity to the police for further investigation.  

So basically you can request information from EE if you are receiving malicious or nuisance calls but it’s EE choice on whether they give you this information. So that’s not in breach of data privacy as there has been questions about this sort of thing before .    

[bristolian]

In practical terms, if a customer is reporting malicious or nuisance calls, they should always log the time & date of those calls.

The network provider, on receipt of a complaint, will be able to identify the number involved and deal with that as necessary. Including referral to the Police, as appropriate.

There isn't normally any need to disclose the details to the end user.

[nssimpson]

I rang up to check stock of an item they have for sale. I don't randomly give out my mobile number to minimise nuisance calls so who's to blame for this?

Also do we all agree that setting caller ID block in the phone settings is no different to 141?

[bristolian]

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@nssimpson wrote:

I rang up to check stock of an item they have for sale. I don't randomly give out my mobile number to minimise nuisance calls so who's to blame for this?

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Fault is most likely to lie with the recipient's telecoms supplier for configuring their telephony software incorrectly. The process for reporting this is most likely - here 

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Also do we all agree that setting caller ID block in the phone settings is no different to 141?

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There is indeed no difference. Your device signals to the network to withhold your number, and the central network routes the call with that instruction.

Whether the instruction comes from the phone settings menu, or from 141, is immaterial.

[nssimpson]

So EE still sends the caller ID onto the recipient's network?