by Claireatkinson Investigator
Investigator

EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

The £4.50 charges are a scam, no explicit consent was given by me and EE are breaking data protection rules. I never gave EE PERMISSION TO PASS ON BANK DETAILS TO A THIRD PARTY, it’s fraud . I believe EE get a cut from the charge and turn a blind eye. I am talking Ofcom and I suggest you all do too. It is EE responsibility to secure our bank data. I reiterate we never gave explicit consent. It’s fraud

 

its basically relying on you checking your bills and takes advantage

13 REPLIES 13
by Claireatkinson Investigator
Investigator

Why has my phone bill trebled since moving from orange to EE

Since Orange moved to EE I have been missold supposedly freebies that have a charge in the shops, contracts I asked to be cancelled and supposedly with complaints dept never ended. I had cancer and now I look at my bill and nothing has changed, except the £4.50 third party charges. It seems corrupt and I have lost all faith in EE

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

Is there a number against these charges in your bill?

 

These will probably be reversed-charged texts from Premium Rate nos. you may have inadvertently subscribed to via Web or TV. EE are not obliged to refund you but you may complain to the Premium rate regulator Phone-paid Services Authority or the firm itself. You can check out those nos. yourself on that site.

 

You could try texting STOP to the number, but it may cost and may not work. 

 

You should also ask EE to block Premium Rate numbers so this doesn't happen in future.

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To phone EE: The local rate landline number +44 207 362 0200 or Freephone +44 800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

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by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

Hi as @XRaySpeX says however.

 

EE allow billing to your account, if you decide to subscribe to a service, answer a quiz, donate, buy a game or buy extras in a game etc then they allow this via your account. As a response adult you are accountable for these charges. If you don't want this functionality then call EE CS and ask them to block premium numbers. 

 

Thanks 




To contact EE Customer Services dial 150 From your EE mobile or 07953 966 250 from any other phone.

EE standard opening hours are 8am to 9pm weekday, 8am to 8pm on weekends.
by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Why has my phone bill trebled since moving from orange to EE

@Claireatkinson  If you get a free device in a EE shop and that device uses a SIM card you need to ask if it’s a contract as you got the device for free but a contract for the device that uses a SIM card will have to be paid. So you agreed to a free device with a contract.  

by
EE Community Support Team

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

Hi @Claireatkinson

 

Welcome to the community.

 

I see you have been given some brilliant advice and help here.

 

You can find out more information on how this service works on our charges to mobile help and support page. 

 

Please let us know if you have any more questions.


Chris

by muggles708 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams


@Northerner wrote:

Hi as @XRaySpeX says however.

 

EE allow billing to your account, if you decide to subscribe to a service, answer a quiz, donate, buy a game or buy extras in a game etc then they allow this via your account. As a response adult you are accountable for these charges. If you don't want this functionality then call EE CS and ask them to block premium numbers. 

 

Thanks 


@Northerner

 

I agree that consumers should be careful online. The problem is that many consumers claim never to have subscribed to these services. There is now a substantial body of evidence that android malware may be responsible. https://psauthority.org.uk/for-business/android-malware

 

Google have acted to try to tighten their checks on Apps on their store, but several have slipped through the net in the past year. There is also evidence that some cheap android phones are being shipped with malware pre-installed! I am currently dealing with a case where even after restoring the phone to factory settings and installing no additional Apps, the phone attempts to sign up to two of these scam 'services'.

 

It might be worth looking at the online reviews of EE's trusted partners:

 

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/sb7mobile.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/lasevia.com

 

I do believe that EE should accept some responsibility for allowing these companies to plunder their customers accounts without having to show any proof of consent.

 

The current situation is akin to someone walking in to your bank and CLAIMING to have your consent to take your money. I don't think they would get very far, but EE and the other networks just hand over the money. The question of consent is only investigated retrospectively by PSA and is then often found not to have been given. Even if is  subsequently proved that there was no consent, the networks take no responsibility for recovering your funds.

 

You are correct that EE customers are able to place a 'charge to bill'  bar  on their account which is effective against these scams. N.B. blocking premium rate numbers WILL NOT stop 'Payforit' charges.

 

Many consumers don't realise that EE will pass their phone number to third parties when they browse the internet using mobile data. In the spirit of the GDPR regulations, I believe that consumers should be asked to give explicit consent for this. At present EE rely on small print in the contract, and I think that is rather dubious legally.

 

Making these services opt-in rather than opt-out would help ensure that consumers were aware of the risks before being exposed to the high risk of fraud which the 'Payforit' system carries.

 

EE have now moved to a two stage PIN protected system for 'Payforit' subscriptions and should be applauded for doing so. I have seen the number of 'Payforit' complaints from EE customers fall dramatically since February when these changes were introduced. Many of the cases now appearing were subscriptions entered in to prior to the new rules.

 

These issues are not unique to the UK. Other countries have also had their 'cramming' scandals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cramming_(fraud)

 

The Phone-paid Services Authority is currently looking at these subscriptions and is likely, as a minimum, to force the other networks to follow the same approach as EE.

 

Paul

http://payforitsucks.co.uk

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

@muggles708

 

It's always somebody else's fault or malware or something else. People are quick to blame others. If you buy cheap Chinese handset with malware, then how us that EE fault.

 

If you don't read the app permissions, t&c and the Google play description, which tells you there are in app purchases or adverts then that's your fault. It's the same with pop ups on Facebook and the Internet, close the app/Internet down, don't answer the question etc..

 

Payforit is part of EE payment offering to customers and is detailed here. It's used by millions of users without issue. Equally there are millions of people who have never had any issues. 

 

Thanks




To contact EE Customer Services dial 150 From your EE mobile or 07953 966 250 from any other phone.

EE standard opening hours are 8am to 9pm weekday, 8am to 8pm on weekends.
by muggles708 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

@Northerner

 

I'm not going to get drawn into a debate with you about this, as I am here primarily to help those who have been defrauded and not to criticise them.

 

There is a lot of misinformation about these scams. Consumers don't realise how vulnerable they are to 'Payforit' fraud until it happens to them. All a fraudster needs to take your money is your phone number. Unlike a bank account number or a credit card number, the primary function of a phone number is for communications! So inevitably  a number of people have to know it, making it very insecure when used as the only authorisation for a payment.

 

My wife and I are very canny when it comes to avoiding problems. We do always read the small print! I was flabbergasted when my wife was scammed as I know she's very careful. In her case it was proven to be a fitness App which she downloaded from the Google Play store which silently signed her up to a subscription. She had no way of knowing this was happening until she got the text confirming the subscription.

 

I get angry when people say 'you must have done something to subscribe', but it is really down to ignorance rather than malice, and I might have said the same thing myself if it wasn't for personal experience.

 

If someone clones your credit card, it may be partially your fault for allowing it to happen, but you don't expect your bank to stand idly by while you are robbed.

EE could see there was a problem with these 'services' and, albeit belatedly, did something about it. The other networks are yet to act.

 

'Payforit' is a magnet for fraudsters, but EE have introduced measures to stop fraud. Congrats to them for 'doing the right thing'. Shame on you for seeking to blame the victims.

by Profile closed
Not applicable

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

@muggles708. Can I just ask, from your experience and I may be completely off the mark here but am I right in saying that it does seem that the vast majority of users getting hit by these types of things are usually Android users?

 

iOS / iPhone users don't seem to get hit as much by this?

 

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

@Profile closed 

 

It's market share, more cheaper Android devices on the market than IOS. 

 

As for @muggles708 contents, they are again just excuses. Payforit is a legitimate payment system, if it wasn't EE or other carriers wouldn't use it. 

 

You can set restrictions via play store or set restrictions via your EE account. Or just take care and read what the app involves. 

 

Thanks

 

 




To contact EE Customer Services dial 150 From your EE mobile or 07953 966 250 from any other phone.

EE standard opening hours are 8am to 9pm weekday, 8am to 8pm on weekends.
by Profile closed
Not applicable

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams

 

@Northerner I presume you are aware though that EE and all 3 of the other UK networks actually own Payforit?

 

by muggles708 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams


@Profile closed wrote:

@muggles708. Can I just ask, from your experience and I may be completely off the mark here but am I right in saying that it does seem that the vast majority of users getting hit by these types of things are usually Android users?

 

iOS / iPhone users don't seem to get hit as much by this?

 


@Very good question and i'm trying to get the answer!  At present it's only a gut feeling and I can't put any figures on it. I'd say that the majority of cases are Android users. @Northerner is right, there are more Android phones in use, so any analysis would need to be quite sophisticate. Not all of these are going to be malware related though. All phone users are susceptible to the Javascript and iFraming exploits which have been around for a long time and have historically been the main cause of fraudulent signups. IOS phones are, of course, equally susceptible to these. And to be fair to @Northerner we cnnot discount the significant proportion of consumers who just didn't read the small print before clicking 'Subscribe'.

 

There is definite evidence that some cheap Chinese manufactured phones are being shipped with preinistalled malware, so I would warn anyone off buying one of those. (unless they are going to root it and install a clean O/S, and if they know how to do that they should certainly know how to avoid malware!).

The regulator has published a warning about Android malware: https://psauthority.org.uk/for-business/android-malware

 

A google search will reveal a lot of information about pre-installed malware on imported Chinese phones. Doogee and Cubot brands both feature.

 

Unfortunately Android users have a problem. Android users should, of course, never sideload apps from anywhere they don't trust 100%. However Google have allowed several malware laden Apps to get through their checking process. So even Apps downloaded from the supposedly safe Google Play store can be infected with malware. The problem is that malware can be concealed within an App in an encrypted form and decrypted and run at a later stage. This defeats the checks that Google make to look for malware in Apps and can make the malware containing App harder to identify.  To be fair, Googe are quick to act when malware is identified.

 

Checking the permissions on an App, which is an important thing to do, doesn't really help with this. To create a fraudulent subscription using 'Payforit', all that an App needs is internet access. Almost all Apps will legitimately require that!

 

Whilst there is no technical reason why other O/S should not be a target of malware, I am not aware of any cases to date. It doesn't mean it won't happen at some time in the future.

 

The good news is that the two step PIN verification now implemented for EE customers should successfully defeat all of these exploits, just as chip and pin has done a lot to make credit and debit cards safer to use. I am not aware of any new cases of 'Payforit' fraud affecting EE customers since the new rules were introduced.  Cases featuring here appear to be subscriptions started prior to the new rules.

 

Fraudsters will always be looking for ways to take money illegally from consumers. It is up to the payment processors, in this case the MNOs, to keep on top of the problem. EE, at last, seem to be leading in this respect.

 

 

by muggles708 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: EE should refund £4.50 third party scams


@Profile closed wrote:

 

@Northerner I presume you are aware though that EE and all 3 of the other UK networks actually own Payforit?

 


By creating the 'Payforit' entity, which has no physical presence, no phone number, in fact no contact details at all, the networks have managed to avoid taking the blame for this ridiculously insecure payment mechanism.

 

As the law stands, 'Payforit' is a legitimate payment system, but it is being used by fraudsters. It has many flaws, is hopelessly insecure, and fails to comply with the Consumer Rights Act 2015. In its present form its days are numbered.

A look at recent tribunal decisions shows the problems. Fines totalling several milions of pounds have been imposed on scam companies taking payment withour consent through 'Payforit'.

 

 

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