by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

EE gave me a full refund when I escalated this issue beyond the staff reading from a script. You have significant consumer rights when complaning including taking the dispute to a third party. EE have a terrible record for compliance with regards customer complaints and have been fined £1 million pounds in the past (see link).. so push hard for your rights. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33376678

 

I haven't taken this further yet but I'm poised to do so as I believe this to be a national scandel. I intend to approach the Banks, Media, Ofcom, PhonePayPlus, ActionFraud.

 

It may be correct that EE don't have an interation log for the transaction as the scheme rules state that this is the resposibility of BounceGames. However they must give you the following  or they are in breach ( see scheme rules below). However I think it's very wrong that EE have limited audit responsibilities for charges they have allowed against your account without directly notifying of at the time.

 

From PayForItScheme rules

APIs are expected to maintain thorough documentation for each consumer transaction. Listed below are the components necessary for audit logs. At all times, APIs must be prepared to provide audit logs to MNO, Payforit Management Group, or Customer Service representatives. APIs must record all purchase process events from the preceding 12 months in an audit log, including the following: 

 

* Event timestamp 

* Consumer (MSISDN, IP address, user agent profile),

* Merchant, and MNO involved in the event 

* Event description in clear English 

* Screen, page, or iFrame grabs from typical events stored frequently 

* Delivery status of all text message receipts 

* Description of billing option and payment flow used (e.g., Web MT, Mobile MO) 

* URL and price of purchased product or service 

* Event status - success or failure  

* Abandonment and cancel rates"

by Kipling-16 Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: PM connect iFitness

I only found out that I got charged £3/ week for ifitness gym +food plan which dates back sometime in March 2016 until August 2016.

i never noticed because I am on paperless billing. I am not even a member of the gym in March nor have subscribed to a food plan sort of thing.

i searched on google but there is no direct number to ring them to request reversal f charges. I managed to get hold of customer service and was promised of a refund within 2 weeks but it remains to be seen until such time I got a refund.

My advice to fellow EE customers is : review your bills regularly. If it goes over than expected complain immediately.

Scam is everywhere now, be vigilant! Take it from my own experience.

Kind regards to all!

by Kipling-16 Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

I rang the help desk from ifitness and the representative sent me an email which said the least that they can do is a refund for 10 weeks only. 

I got charged for 25 weeks at £3 per week.

Nobody seemed to have listened to my frustrations. I will contact the Communications Ombudsman next and see what happens. There is a lot of madness in this world we live now a days. Scam is everywhere victimising  vulnerable people.

Be vigilant is the word I could impart with my fellow subscribers.

Kind regards to us all!

by Poor1 Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Good luck. They did refund me when I challenged them
Highlighted
by
EE Employee

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hello @moog.

 

I’ve taken your questions to the relevant experts here to make sure that I got answers to them all. Please do let me know if I’ve missed anything:

 

BounceGames are regulated by ‘PhonepayPlus’ and must operate in line with their code requirements. Phonepay Plus has visibility of all services offered by BounceGames to ensure that they meet their requirements.

 

You’ve asked several questions around ‘PayFor It’ and the regulations of their scheme. BounceGames is not a member of the PayForIt scheme. The PayForIt regulations are in place only for services subscribed to via Payforit.

 

We’ve worked with BounceGames to ensure that all of our customers are safeguarded from signing up in error. This includes:

  • Ensuring that their price and legal T&Cs are very visible on the sign-up page.
  • Adding a two-click sign-up process, as of June 1st 2016.
  • A sign-up text is sent to the mobile number and this service can be cancelled within 24 hours without charge.
  • Reminder texts are sent to every customer of these services every three months.

 

We also have the ability to restrict your EE account from being able to subscribe to these services, which our customer service team are able to apply.

 

If you believe that a company you’ve subscribed to it not operating within PhonepayPlus’ guidelines, then you have every right to log a complaint to PhonepayPlus about this.

 

I’m sorry to hear that the frontline advisor you spoke to suggested that we don’t or can’t inform you about a payment showing as “other EE services” on your bill. To confirm, we do inform customers of these charges; on the bill, in a text sent from the service upon sign-up and EE can confirm information about the service, to our customers. Frontline agents at EE have full visibility of all charges incurred, messages sent to the phone about the service and have the ability to stop any services provided by BounceGames via a tool that we have.

 

This includes date/time of signup and dates messages were sent/received. As mentioned above, we’ve ensured that the services themselves send a text to the phone upon sign-up to ensure that customers are aware that they’ve subscribed.

 

Please get in touch with a member of our customer service team if you’d like this checked.

 

Hopefully this information is helpful and thank you for coming to Community to help other customers with queries about third party services. 

 

 

Many thanks,

 

Lee

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

You said "You’ve asked several questions around ‘PayFor It’ and the
regulations of their scheme. BounceGames is not a member of the PayForIt
scheme. The PayForIt regulations are in place only for services subscribed
to via Payforit."


Can you please explain how I was signed up to a subscription for Bounce
Games and billed for it under " Other EE services"..and they informed me
that I had clicked to sign up via direct to bill payment method which I
understand is falls under PayForIt regulations.
by
EE Community Support Team

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi @moog,

 

As @Lee_H explained above, BounceGames are not a member of the PayForIt scheme.

 

BounceGames is a UK premium rate service regulated by PhonepayPlus.

 

Thanks

 

James

by Sg123
Visitor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi badleydrawnbloke,

 

i have today had had the same problem with games saine  on my sons phone.  I have rang game saine who have offered a refund and said I need to reply to there email with details of my bank account.  I'm a bit weary of sending anyone my account info and I see you have done the same. Is it ligit? Did you get a refund or did they empty your account 😡

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

No it is not. Bounce games/ bounce.mobi charge direct to bill under other
ee services. Please explain how you believe they charge. Premium rate SMS
or number... absolutely no way in my case. Their customer service told me
my subscription was initiated by a click on an advert... this was not a
premium rate phone transaction... but a transaction driven by a click and
this falls under payforit scheme rules.

FYI payforit is not a regulator but rather cooperative scheme agreed
between the networks on how to operate direct to bill click payments. I
understand phonepayplus now regulate payforit services but the networks
also have defined responsibilities.
by MarcusValhalla
Explorer

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

I've managed to "sign up" to Bounce Games this morning while my phone was in my pocket.  Somehow.

 

Anyway, this bit:

 

"A sign-up text is sent to the mobile number and this service can be cancelled within 24 hours without charge."

 

Is not true, because the instructions in the "joining" text to unsubscribe involve sending a stop text to a premium number which I no doubt will be charged for.

 

It's no surprise that people assume these are phishing scams and ignore them, is it?

by
EE Community Support Team

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi @MarcusValhalla,

 

Welcome to the EE Community.

 

You wouldn't be charged more than 10p when texting STOP to unsubscribe.

 

Thanks

 

James

by MarcusValhalla
Explorer

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Well 10p while not a huge amount is certainly not "without charge"...

 

Now, this situation occured when my phone was accidentally unlocked in my pocket.  So, what I want to know is, with the phone in my pocket, how did I manage to open an internet browser and navigate to a page with one of these links on, then not only click the link but apparently click something else to confirm that I'd clicked the first link?  

 

I'll happily supply my phone number if EE can confirm the full URL(s) of the visited page(s) that carried the link, because oddly enough there's nothing in my browser history to help me understand how this remarkable set of coincidences occured.

by Scammednothappy Contributor
Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

On my EE account 5 amounts of £2.99 were deducted in June and July 2016.   I had received a text in June but ignored it as some kind of spam and only saw the deductions in July.

 

EE said they could stop it (unsubscribe) but said they couldn’t refund when I first called them in July and at that time they didn’t offer any information about the scamming company. I agreed to let them unsubscribe me.

 

Then this week, having back checked both June and July bills, I phoned for a refund. Not possible – only through the third party as EE had nothing to do with what I did on the internet.  My protestations that I am not interested at all in fitness subscriptions fell on deaf ears. Eventually after indicating that I would not let this rest, EE gave me the contact details of CONVEY PTY or 8Zmobile.com which was the company which organises this scam, though when I called them they referred to themselves as MOBIPAY.  

 

They said I should email them to request a refund. They also suggested that I may have subscribed by accident.  Indeed.

 

I got a reply (an very unprofessional email) from Mobile Embrace Ltd stating that I might have to wait up to 21 days for a cheque for my ‘ happy customer refund’.   I jest not.   This was yesterday.   Only 20 more days to go.

 

The EE customer services staff seem to be trained in damage limitation rather than proactive support.   If I had heard: ‘this is an ongoing problem and we are trying our utmost to ensure that in future customers will be protected and here’s how’ etc,  I may have been reassured.   But it was more along the lines of ‘oh gosh, unlucky you, these things happen and we’re not responsible for accidental clicks in your pocket’

So it must be worth EE’s while for this ‘third party’ ‘fitness subscription’ scam to continue.

 

And by the way, any third company that says they can only refund up to 10 weeks (previous thread) is surely acting illegally. Which god given right allows them to charge people for months for something they didn’t request and then claim that they don’t have to refund more than 10 weeks?   

 

The number of posts on this subject speaks volumes.   The similarity of the problem speaks volumes.   EEs responses on the phone and on this thread also speak volumes.

 

My next port of call will be Ofcom.

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi Scammednothappy;

You are quite right that EE do not care. Seems they have a policy to let
this continue as long as possible as it's presumably highly profitable.

Of a small number of colleagues I've asked , three have been affected by
this ... so the national numbers must be huge... big money.

Also don't hold your breath for any help from staff or "EE associated
customers" on this forum as they are all clearly well briefed in how to
deflect, placate and sometimes they plain lie! Please do not moderate me..
this is the truth. They state bounce.mobi and EE have no relationship via
direct billing with EE.. that is a lie... and it is a lie I'd like you
repeat for the record please.

Just google "other EE services" and look at the number of related threads
on this forum that have been ended very quickly via a private message ? ...
Why a private resolution to a common issue on a community forum... why? ..
by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Here is EE security advice page

 

http://ee.co.uk/help/safety-and-security/security/online-security

 

Below are some extracts of good advice from EE regarding texts and password. I agreee strongly with all points. 

 

---------------------------

Help stop spam text messages

Ignore messages if you are unsure who it has come from. Sometimes if you reply it just confirms a phone number is live, and you may continue to receive spam.

 

If you suspect a text is fake and isn't from EE:

  • DO NOT reply to the text with any information
    DO NOT download any attachments
    DO forward the text to 7726 for our security teams to investigate
    DO delete the text

Passwords

Everything from your online bank account to Facebook needs a password.

Your passwords and PINs give you secure access to your online life.

--------------------------

 

---------------------------------

 

Now take those points and apply them to the direct to bill payment scheme EE have silently added to your account without notification of any kind.

  • No password or pin protection
  • No notification from EE .. only a potentially unknown 3rd party to customer.
  • EE has to release your phone number to 3rd party to allow direct to account billing and yet claims to have responsibility over 3rd party . OMG!

Does anyone see  conflict or hyprocracy here.

 

 

 

 

by DrDvorak
Visitor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Upon undertaking a review of househould finances, I found out my wife was subscribed to this 'service' (since February 2016) and had so far paid £80 of fraudulent charges via direct debit.

 

My wife has never heard of bounce.mobi or iFitness. A gym plan is of no relevance or use given that she is a registered disabled blue badge holder receiving carer's allowance and the the higher rate mobility component.

 

EE customer services on the phone advised me they cannot do anything about a refund and I have to contact the third party to claim this, which is unacceptable treatment of loyal long-term (soon to be ex-) customers.

 

As a next step, I will be reporting to my bank that the charges were fraudulent.

by
EE Employee

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi @DrDvorak and welcome to the Community.

 

I understand your frustration in regards to this issue.

 

When you spoke to customer services did they put a premium block on to stop future charges?

 

Many thanks,

 

Lee

by Scammednothappy Contributor
Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hello Dr Dvorak,

 

You're right to say that it's unacceptable that EE won't refund you.   It's completely disgraceful that they can block such subscriptions if you ask them to but don't do it automatically.   Therefore one can only assume complicity with the so called third parties.

 

You can get the details of the third party from EE.    I followed up in this way and was refunded by cheque after around 10 days.  

 

I don't think your bank will be able to help you.   It's really EE who should be sorting it out but they don't seem to be willing to do so.

 

Good luck.

by Dlee
Explorer

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi this has happened to me and I have just found out today that I have been being charged under many different names for the last 6 months . With between 1.25 to 2.50 a week being taken out of my acc. I called  twice today and both times was told nothing to do with .EE however it didn't stop both staff members trying to up sell other products such as second lines. !!! I have a charge on my bill for next month for LV foods !!!! Of £2.50 but gave not been given a refund!! But again asked if I wanted  a second line ... I have got some very good advice from others on my position on how to take this further and would like to say tanks to the general public .. As for Ee as a company I am pretty disgusted but not surprised at your lack of customer care . I worked for a very large telephone company and the customer very much comes at the lower end of their priority list. Up for renewal in December .. Bye bye EE and I have been with this company for over 10 years !!!! 

by Dlee
Explorer

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi this has happened to me and I have just found out today that I have been being charged under many different names for the last 6 months . amounts from 1.25 to 2.50 a week being taken out of my acc. I called  twice today and both times was told nothing to do with .EE however it didn't stop both staff members trying to up sell other products such as second lines. !!! I have a charge on my bill for next month for LV foods !!!! Of £2.50 but have  not been given a refund!! But again asked if I wanted  a second line ... I have got some very good advice from others on my position on how to take this further and would like to say thanks  to the general public  and your post detailing what action to take.As for Ee as a company I am pretty disgusted but not surprised at your lack of customer care . I worked for a very large telephone company and the customer very much came at the lower end of their priority list. Their sales pitch was "sales through service " however it was very plain to see it was more service through sales as everything was geared through sales!!! Up for renewal in December .. Bye bye EE and I have been with this company for over 10 years !!!!  No company leeward for loyalty!!!

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