by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Slow fttc!

Hi all - so I ordered FTTC on an 80/20 profile and it went live yesterday. Advance speed tests looked top end. Guy came and fitted a new master socket, hub connected and we’re only syncing at 40 and dropping, and throughout between 25 and 30 most of the time. Massively lower than the estimate of 76.

 

ive checked the BTW checker, and put details through BT and SSE availability checkers and they’re all coming back top end, way above what I’m actually seeing.

 

anybody got any ideas why the estimates are so far from reality, or on how to get a boost? No extensions in use, new master socket. Looking at the wiring to the pole it looks old, and via a BT66 with next door’s ADSL. 

 

and should I be paying 80/20 when I’m getting 40/10??

 

Speed tests attached from mobile for ease, but also conducted on laptop via Ethernet and no other devices and bringing back the same ballpark.

 

 

1D7D93C5-1D47-400A-9A0B-C5C1A1899DE0.jpeg

 

B29E036E-4C55-4C0D-B7DF-A475C366A02A.jpeg

 

E9EBD1EC-8F23-415C-9532-5048618C4C85.jpeg

 AEEA735C-99AE-4428-A4A4-15E631131506.jpeg

  

 

DBF06278-A04E-482D-98BD-22A7455BC065.png

 

see attached pictures. 

 

Cheers all! Any help appreciated.

20 REPLIES
Highlighted
by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

I'd wait 10 days. The line is undergoing the DLM optimisation for the first 10 days and speeds will fluctuate wildly in the first few days.

 

The new mastersocket is a good move, and as long as you have all phone extensions around the house removed from being connected at the back of the master socket you should be ready for VDSL FTTC. 

by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Hiya - brand new everything so no extensions or anything else at all connected.

 

i thought 10 day DLM was a myth that spanned from the old ADSL Max days? BT’s own SIN498 document states:

 

2.2.5 Dynamic Line Management

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly
manages lines to maintain a target stability. It does this for as long as the product
exists.

At provision, the line is put on wide open profiles, allowing downstream line speeds
of up to 40Mbit/s, and upstream line speeds of up to 2Mbit/s or 10Mbit/s depending
on the upstream product option selected.

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected.
Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before intervening, provided
that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

If DLM intervenes it will set a capped profile with a maximum rate and a minimum
rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate. The
purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is
significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve. If this happened, then
the line is likely to remain at a very low rate till a re-train is forced by the user
powering off the Active NTE.

Note that the upstream throughput is also constrained on the DSLAM to the upstream
rate requested in the order, ie 2Mbit/s or 10Mbit/s, so even if the upstream line speed
is higher, the upstream throughput is constrained to the level ordered for the product.

 

obviously with an 80/20 product it should be on a wide profile up near 80/20 unless during the install the repeat reboots have caused DLM to put a profile on there limiting speed. Can EE reset this?

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Hi,   Reading that statement confirms what I suggest is happening.  Even an 80/20 service would be subject to DLM as you have a fair amount of copper between you and the cabinet. 

 

If you have been restarting your router a lot then that may have messed with the DLM process.

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

Welcome to EE's Home Broadband Forum.

If you would like help with your BB speed or connection issues, please would you carry out the following steps for starters, which will enable us to diagnose the problem and advise you further. Do not restart your router to do these tests:

1. Post your full router stats. For a BrightBox: login and go to Advanced Settings/ System/ DSL Status. Also post 'System Uptime' from top of System Log page. Full router stats are key to any speed & connection issues.

2. Check your IP Profiles. Run the BT Wholesale Performance Test (ignoring all the red instructions) and on the initial results page click Further diagnostics at the bottom. The IP Profiles are given in the text boxes.

 

If your upstream IP Profile is 10 Meg, you can't be on the 80/20 Meg product.

 

The 10-day optimisation is a myth! The DLM runs all the time monitoring your line.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Hello mate - thanks for your help. I’ve got the BT hub clone. Speed has improved overnight but still well below the advertised speeds.

 

stats are

 

  1. Board version:01
    DSL uptime:0 days, 6 Hours, 45 Mins, 6 Secs
    Data rate:8.66 Mbps / 46.12 Mbps
    Maximum Data rate:8.62 Mbps / 45.61 Mbps
    Noise margin (up/down):5.1 / 5.8
    Line attenuation (up/down):37.8 / 25.3
    Signal attenuation (up/down):39.3 / 23.0
    Data sent / received:731.0 MB / 10.0 GB

looking through the event log there’s are constant disconnections and ‘no carrier’ errors literally all the time overnight. We did have some rain. None since 8am this morning though...

 

BTw indicates it is an 80/20 product. It reads max achievable upload (and profile) is 20, but pulling 6.73. Down profile says it’s 44.59, pulling 41.44... seems to be capped.image.jpg

 

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

Your attenuation looks on the high side for an 80 Meg line. You did use your phone no. for the BT Availability Checker? How far do you reckon the cable length is to your local cab?

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!


@XRaySpeXwrote:

 

The 10-day optimisation is a myth! The DLM runs all the time monitoring your line.


Well a myth means it doesn't exist, and so your comment is incorrect.

 

DLM is on during the first 10 days as clearly that is when it is needed to assess a new line.  Chances are it will have done the most radical changes in the first few days, and hence the "wait 10 days by which time it will have calmed down with the variance in speed' mantra from ISPs.  Yes I am sure there is some sort of DLM on the line after that, but unless things change on your line it won't be invoked so it will be invisible in it's operation. Indeed if it was there to pick up slight changes in performance of the line we wouldn't be arguing about "ask for it to be reset" periodically on this forum as it should be doing it automatically.. which clearly it doesn't other than in the first 10 days after installation.

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!


@R98wrote:

looking through the event log there’s are constant disconnections and ‘no carrier’ errors literally all the time overnight....

 

...It reads max achievable upload (and profile) is 20, but pulling 6.73. Down profile says it’s 44.59, pulling 41.44... seems to be capped.

 


So the constant disconnections may have been the reason the DLM made a number of stepped reductions in the maximum speed. That possibly culminated in a cap which is why you are steadfastly stuck in the 40's now.  I guess you need to determine why the line was so unstable and then reset the DLM.

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

OR will not reset the DLM on a fibre line unless they have 1st fixed some fault on it.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Yeah I used the telno - the nearest cabinet is maybe fifteen metres, but the checker shows I’m connected to Cab 6 which is maybe 5-600m away?

 

Not sure if it’s an aluminium line - was installed in the early 80s!

by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

I should add - we’ve only just had fibre become available, and phone line installed (using an old link that was hidden in the floors!) EE and BT both treated it as anew line install as no lines showing at the address 

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

Um! I reckon 5-600m to the cab. would give you a speed of around 45 Meg, which is what you are actually getting. Could be longer & slower if you've given the straight line distance. See VDSL2 (FTTC) Speed vs. Distance .

 

This does not accord with the BT Wholesale Availability Checker (& all the ISP checkers which are only taken from the BTw Checker anyway). I believe the actual Line Attenuation from the router stats is a far better indicator than any general estimate.

 

I put this down to the fact that cab 6 was only commissioned to supply FTTC relatively recently, 8th November 2017, & BTw haven't yet got their database records up-to-date.

 

I reckon the BTw Checker is giving the speeds you would get from the nearest cab. had you been connected to it, but you aren't. Do you know which no. cab is that? Could it be cab 3 (BH20 7DA) or cab 4 (DT11 9ET)?

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!


@XRaySpeXwrote:

 

I reckon the BTw Checker is giving the speeds you would get from the nearest cab. had you been connected to it, but you aren't. Do you know which no. cab is that? Could it be cab 3 (BH20 7DA) or cab 4 (DT11 9ET)?


I think Xray has hit the nail on the head here.  40meg is what you should get but the higher checker estimate is based on a different cab. 

by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Would make sense - Cab 7 is the one right outside. Shame they didn’t pull a new line through from cab 7 and save all this!!

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

Yes, cab 7 was also provisioned for FTTC,  available from 3rd November 2017 (a few days before yours). 

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

To cut a long story short the it was meant to be a new line install as there were no lines shown here, engineer attends and finds a line and uses that. Spoke to EE today and the understanding is the new line was meant to come from Cab 7, the old line goes elsewhere and is in poor condition. Their tests show faults so passed to OR for repair. With any luck they’ll just install the new line as planned!

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

I don't think OR will physically install a new line if they find an existing but inactive existing line. They still charge a blanket fee just for activating it.

 

How do you know it is in bad condition? It seems to be behaving correctly for its length. Just cuz it's old doesn't make it bad.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
by R98 Contributor
Contributor

Re: Slow fttc!

Sorry to clarify - the line actually belongs to a different property. Their spare pair...??

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: Slow fttc!

I don't understand. If it belongs to a different property, why is it at your property under the floorboards?

__________________________________________________________________________________________
If you think I helped please feel free to hit the "Star" button below.
To phone EE: The local rate landline number 0207 362 0200 or Freephone 0800 079 8586 - Option 1 for Mobiles; Option 2 for 4G WiFi; Option 3 for Home Broadband & EE TV.

ISPs: 1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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