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by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

I have a question for EE.

What is your relationship with bounce.games.

Is the relationship:

1) A PayForIt Service falling under the jurisdiction of PhonePayPlus and
subject to PayForIt Scheme rules?

or
2) An "Own Portal Service" or "Mobile Portal Service" that would mean
regulation via OFCOM as the Mobile network operator has
primary customer responsibility as they have a direct relationship with the
third party.?

In short... are bounce.games subscription services regulated by
PhonePayPlus or not.?..... answer carefully.


The customers with an interest in this thread really need an answer so that
they know who to aapproach to get a resolution.
You are obligated by law to answer this question and address a legitimate
customer concern.

This issue has been going on for years now so I think it's fair to regard
the issue as legitimate and serious.
by
EE Community Support Team

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi @moog

 

Thanks for posting and for your questions.

 

I can see we got answers for you here last year.

 

Richard

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Thanks for the curt response and you are not being honest again.. I just
wanted you to state it again for the record.

The information presented is false. bounde.games are not operated as a
payforit and are actually regulated under OFCOM as outlined in their terms
and conditions.

http://gamesukp.mpay.uk/terms

taken from the above terms:
---------------------------

26. Our details

26.1 This website is owned and operated by PM Connect ltd.

26.2 We are registered in England and Wales under company number
07347102

26.3 Our principal place of business is at Basepoint Business Centre,
Isidore Road, Bromsgrove Technology Park, B60 3ET. Our VAT number is 995
8434 53.

26.4 You can contact us by writing to the business address given above,
by using our website contact form, by email to help@bounce.mobi or by
telephone on 0333 212 4617.

26.5 Insofar as the games club involve the use of *Mobile portal
services *the manner in which that use is carried on is subject to the
relevant regulations set out by *OFCOM.*

26.6 We only use your personal information in accordance with these
Terms and strictly in compliance with the provisions of the Data Protection
Act 1998. For further information please refer to *www.ico.org.uk
*.
-----------------------------------------


There is no mention of PayForIt or PhonePayPlus what so ever since they are
not a member of the PayforIt scheme or regulated by PhonePayPlus. They are,
as they themselves state, a Mobile Portal Service. They are not regulated
by PhonePayPlus and all complaints refunds etc must be handled via EE as a
portal service is a partnership between Mobile operator and the thrid party.

If you follow this link on desktop you can see their two step payment
process and it is certainly not PayForIt compliant and has no PayForIt
basging at all... nothing. ..
http://games.bounce.mobi/identity

I could easily add a script to this page to auto click that button twice
and redirect somewhere else.... that payment page is not secure!

I can also access the page via http: and so they are submitting data in
the clear... This alone should be enough for a responsible company to
investigate... but you will do nothing.


Click the button to see, but do not do this on a mobile device

Also this page is aimed as children and that is illegal under ASA rules..


*So , I''l ask again..... what is the true relationship betwteen EE and
bounce.moi (aka PMConnect) and why are you being so evasive with the
truth?*
by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

EE have suddenly gone quite...!

 

Here is a link to a very important document:

 

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/46513/statement.pdf

 

This is the OFCOM 2012 review of Premium Content Services. Everything you need to challenge EE is in here.

 

Bounce.mobi is an EE partner content provider delivering content via a Mobile Protal service as detailed in their terms and conditions.  The regulator is OFCOM and the responsibility lies with the MCP ( mobile communications provider -EE). Do not waste your time going to PhonePayPlus as they have no authority as they only cover PFI services( paygorIt) and SMS or Voice premuim rate services. 

 

Now the nice EE man Richard_C has just pointed out via the linked info that bounce.mobi is not PFI, it's certainly not SMS and or voice..... thats leaves Own Portal services. ...... remember that EE used to bill these scam charges as other EE services, they have now changed the label to hide the truth. I was also originally told that this wwas content delivered via the EE appStore, but I'd no idea what this was.... now I understand.

 

 

Taken from the document:

 

Own Portal Services /Mobile portal services 4.3

The“Mobile portal content services are digital content services that can be purchased by the MCP’s customer through ‘browse and click’, where the MCP carries out all retail activities regarding the content itself, including the promotion, delivery, billing and customer care and where the transaction is charged to the MCP’s customer’s bill or pay as you go credit.”

 

 

On PMconnect Website they openly brag about their relationships with the networks and about content partners. There are not the rogue unpolicable third party that EE wants you to believe... they are in partnership.

 

Come on EE come clean and say sorry and do the right thing by your customers for once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Here is a full website devoted to this issue albeit a different scam third party partner of EE.... same issues apply.

 
 
EE have since dropped this content partner.
by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

I have also found this relating to another of these portal service providers that EE customers are complaining about. Here a defrauded custromer replicated the fraud to a BBC journalist by signing them up to a subscription without him knowing.

 

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000063974/mobile-customer-uncovers-premium-rate-sc...

 

Do not let EE tell you that it was your fault and that you must have clicked something without knowing... it's not true, there is a problem and they know it !

 

Here is a link relating to the same company on here:

 

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Community-Feedback/Buongiorno-B-Games-scam/td-p/223379

 

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

To EE.

 

Urgent action required.

 

The sign up mechansm for all PRS services via your own portal content partner PMConnect are not secure and wide open to abuse.

 

Each step of the process can be initiated in http when is should be secured in https.  The request can therefore be intercepted and altered. The crucial 3 parameters that identify the customer and network are unencrypted, obvious and open. 

 

 

Also your the first step of your two step process is nothing more than a pixel request via ajax and means nothing as can be fired by an automated script. 

 

All a hacker would need is the customers mobile network ref number and the matching newtork identifier pair. Since PMConnect are affliating signups at £1.50 + each there is a clear motive someone to do this.

 

You really need to act now.

 

 

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

I need some assurance you are going to act to protect your customer immedaitely or I will have to contact ActionFraud, OFCOM and the press as you are allowing unsecure payment transactions against customer accounts.

 

The problem is worse than I thought since NONE of the PMConnect urls allow HTTPS and therfore these transactions are always unsecure and have been for years despite customer concerns and appeals to investigate. I found the issue in 10 minutes.

 

HTTPS is the conerstone of web security and is essential in protecting customer data, authentication and providing secure transactions. Allowing a payment mechanism that does not support HTTPS is tantamount to corporate negligence.

 

 

by csuwi1 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness


@moog wrote:

I need some assurance you are going to act to protect your customer immedaitely or I will have to contact ActionFraud, OFCOM and the press as you are allowing unsecure payment transactions against customer accounts.

 


Moog, based on my experiences with the Mobitrans scam, I would go straightahead with contacting the press and the regulators because EE failed to act in that case and the process with the regulators was painfully long-winded and repetitive, and even after a year was never really satisfactorily resolved.

 

From my experience, no-one you speak to here is going to have the faintest clue about the technical aspects of what you're saying and will just assure you that "customer security is taken very seriously" or some such meaningless blandishment.

 

I will contact you privately and can hopefully provide some contact details and resources based on the work I did trying to get EE to shut down the Mobitrans scam.

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Thanks for the support since there is little help to be gleaned on here. To fight for a simple investigation to a genuine customer concern for months and months with no results is sad and simply shameful on EE's part. Why have I had to do their job for them?

 

I'm going to give them another hour and then I think the most effective direction will be to mail bomb the press along with  a link to this thread and others. 

by Jon1009 Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

 

Hi @moog,

 

I’ll give you a update where Iam at, after Bounce provided me the "exact" advert i clicked on to signup which had the wrong price and i called them on that with the threat of legal action Bounce refunded me £115.50 via a text and post office code which worked. I have the whole email conversation if you would like it. 

 

It’s quite clear they are fraudulently charging customers when they don’t even have the common sense to check the amount they are charging before providing proof.

 

They wouldn’t refund the VAT so Iam still not happy.

 

As for my other Claim against PlayManiax of over £250 I have yet to hear from them.

 

I have filed a complaint with the Ombudsman about EE as this all stems from them neglecting customer security on a massive scale after being inform a number of times.

 

The amount of time ive had to waste on this is becoming a joke!

 

Jon

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

bounce.pngUnsecure PMConnect payment page

Found at this address.

http://games.bounce.mobi

 

Here is the payment page in question. The most interesting element on this page other than it is not https secured is this:

 

"Charges added to this EE mobile bill"

 

This text is hard coded and displays like this on all devices regardless of connection type. This simply means that this company only uses this page to process payment against EE.... so like I have been saying for over 2 years.. they are in exclusive partnership with EE.

 

Care to explain this one Richard_C. I await your glib response.

 

PMConnect won't respond so I'm afraid it still lies with you EE guys to stop this disgraceful situation... not your problem?. don't think so!

by FranF Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Sadly, when I received my bill, there was no 'adjustment'.  Since I recorded the phone conversation, I replayed it to make sure I wasn't imagining it.  Sure enough 16 minutes 47 seconds into the call (!) Veeraj says" I will put an adjustment of £12.50 on your bill"

 

I also trawled back through my bills, and discovered charges under 'other T-mobile services' for Bounc MobiG going back to January!

 

The good news is that I followed some other advice I found here and called PM connect:

 

I called 03301224968 
0300 numbers are charged at the same rate as standard 01 or 02 numbers, so it came out of my inclusive free minutes.

 

There was be an automated voice on the line before I got through to a person, but I did get through.

 

Employees are instructed not to offer a refund.  I ASKED for it. Not in vague terms like 'what are you going to do about this?'  I said "I NEED A REFUND".

 

Apparently their company policy provides a maximum of 10 weeks to be refunded (which would have been £25 rather than the £95 I had been scammed) UNLESS the caller specifically states that a young child or vulnerable elderly person clicked on the advert by mistake. In these cases, a FULL REFUND can be offered. 

 

I requested the refund via paypal -and have today received it.

by FranF Investigator
Investigator

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

This Post by an ex Bounce employee helped me get my full refund.

 

Thanks i-Fitness_Rebel for your help!

Highlighted
by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Spangle is a Fake EE staff account.
by muggles708 Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

@moog

I'm interested in your stance on this, and at the fact that nobody at EE has made a clear statement regarding this.

I found this article which includes the following comments from PhonepayPlus ( Now Phone-paid Services Authority)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

A PhonepayPlus spokesperson said Mobitrans appeared to be an ‘own-portal service’, which falls outside the scope of premium rate services regulation so is not regulated by PhonepayPlus.

 

“This type of service is provided by the relevant Mobile Network operator (MNO), and in contrast with other services which are regulated by PhonepayPlus, it is the MNO in question who is responsible for customer service, complaints handling etc. rather than a third party service provider – it is therefore the responsibility of the MNOs to ensure that complaints about own-portal services are addressed.

“Consumers should contact their mobile provider, explain the issue and ask them to resolve it."

--------------------------------------------------------

Full Article

https://www.cable.co.uk/news/ee-customers-stung-by-accidental-premium-rate-charges-700001013/

 

Unless something has changed since the article was written, it is quite inexcusable for EE not to take responsibility for these ongoing scams.

 

by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

@muggles708

I totally agree. The law is clear on this but is toothless as no-one has
the clout to take on the Networks.

All EE does is to deny that the service in question is an Own Portal
Service and/or persist in insisting that the Phone-paid Services Authority
is the regulator and fob you off.

It's an absolute disgrace and I hope when the axe falls, that there are
custodial sentences involved.


To prove a point I'd like ask any EE drones on here to answer whether
Mobitrans and Bounce.Mobi are own portal services or not and also who
regulates each of them ? ....

Don't expect an honest or informed answer despite the clarity of your
previous post.
by moog Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

@muggles708

I totally agree. The law is clear on this but is toothless as no-one has
the clout to take on the Networks.

All EE does is to deny that the service in question is an Own Portal
Service and/or persist in insisting that the Phone-paid Services Authority
is the regulator and fob you off.

It's an absolute disgrace and I hope when the axe falls, that there are
custodial sentences involved.


To prove a point I'd like ask any EE drones on here to answer whether
Mobitrans and Bounce.Mobi are own portal services or not and also who
regulates each of them ? ....

Don't expect an honest or informed answer despite the clarity of your
previous post.
by
EE Community Support Team

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hi @moog and @muggles708,

 

As mentioned earlier in the thread, any complaints about charge to mobile services should be directed to the Phone-paid Services Authority.

 

Thanks

 

James

by eesucks12lots Contributor
Contributor

Re: Unwanted EE store subscription charges: Bounce.mobi iFitness

Hey James,

I guess that's why ee gave a Full refund before I took my x4 numbers elsewhere.

Because it's not ee,s problem.

🤗

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