by nittyg Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

ahh right i get ya

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

@nittyg  The contract price is what is stated on your account.  The discount is not the contract price as it’s a discount on the full contract price.   The RPI increase is based on the full contract price as the discount is not part of the contract and it’s a discount that’s applied to your account not the contract.  You agreed to a contract at full price and any discounts applied to your account are not part of the contract that you agreed too.    A discount can be removed but you’ll still have to pay the full contract price as that is what you agreed too.  ( EE wouldn’t do that by the way ) 

by nittyg Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

thanks for the reply again chris but its nothing i havent heard before

 

and still no one can point to the relavant point in the terms raised in my previous post lol

 

i think we should leave it now anyway

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@StopItwrote:

 

It's a legitimate point, but it just looks a little silly at first glance over the grand total of £2.52 a year!


If its such a small amount:

i) Why don't EE apply it to the discounted price as most customers probably expect?

ii) Even when the CEO office is challenged with regard to it, agree that it is not clear and transparent and reduce the increase as requested by a disgruntled customer?

 

Could it be that they make millions from a completely spurious price rise.

by Brilliant Contributor
Brilliant Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@ppopwrote:

@StopItwrote:

 

It's a legitimate point, but it just looks a little silly at first glance over the grand total of £2.52 a year!


If its such a small amount:

i) Why don't EE apply it to the discounted price as most customers probably expect?

ii) Even when the CEO office is challenged with regard to it, agree that it is not clear and transparent and reduce the increase as requested by a disgruntled customer?

 

Could it be that they make millions from a completely spurious price rise.


Because it' set on the tariff price and the tariff price is not the discounted price.

 

The price paid is not the agreed tariff. It's the amount paid after the discount has been taken off. They agreed to pay the full amount as EE could at anytime remove any discounts.


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by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@Chris_Bwrote:

@nittyg  The contract price is what is stated on your account.  The discount is not the contract price as it’s a discount on the full contract price.   The RPI increase is based on the full contract price as the discount is not part of the contract and it’s a discount that’s applied to your account not the contract.  You agreed to a contract at full price and any discounts applied to your account are not part of the contract that you agreed too.    A discount can be removed but you’ll still have to pay the full contract price as that is what you agreed too.  ( EE wouldn’t do that by the way ) 


‘Monthly Charge’
the amount that You pay each month in advance for Your Price Plan Service.
 
In the contract it does not say 'contract price', it says the 'the amount you pay'.
 
The contract does not say the RPI increase will apply to the contract price, it says it will apply to the 'price plan charge' which in effect is the 'monthly charge'.
 
The discount you have negotiated is very definately part of the contract, EE cannot remove it as it forms part of the contract.
 
It is clear that the terms do not reflect the action of EE in applying the RPI increase to their inflated monthly price. This being the case, in consumer law, the outcome is the one most favourable to the consumer.
 
I would argue that the RPI increase is already in a grey area as whether it should be allowed in what is effectively a short contract, by appling it to a price the consumer will probably never pay is very definately legally dubious.
 
The CMA(competion and markets auth) considers that fairness is particularly unlikely to be achieved via inclusion of cancellation rights in the following two kinds of case:
(b)
Where the circumstances in which a variation could occur have not
been made sufficiently clear as mentioned in paragraph 5.21.6 above.
Fairness requires that the consumer should be able to foresee and
evaluate the implications of the fact that he or she may at some point
have to choose between accepting a variation and abandoning the
bargain altogether (see paragraph 5.22.6).
 
If the terms are not clear and transparent, how can a consumer 'foresee and evaluate'
 
by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

@ppop  As I have to keep saying what does it say the price is of your contract when you open your account.   That is the contract price regardless of any discounts. 

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@Chris_Bwrote:

@ppop  As I have to keep saying what does it say the price is of your contract when you open your account.   That is the contract price regardless of any discounts. 


Where does it say that?

 

As has been said, the contract that the agreement is based on does not reflect what you are saying.

 

The contract says the RPI is applied to the 'monthly charge'(price plan charge).

 

Does the 'monthly charge' say before or after discount?   NO

 

What EE think they would like the contract to say, and what it actually says are different.

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

@ppop  It says to your monthly price plan. There is nothing about the charge. 

 

  Your monthly price plan is what is stated on your account.  

 

“We’re writing to let you know about the Retail Price Index (RPI) change to your monthly price plan(s), which will take effect from 30th March 2018. The RPI figure published by the Office for National Statistics in January 2018 is 4.1%.”

 

 

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@Chris_Bwrote:

@ppop  It says to your monthly price plan. There is nothing about the charge. 

 

  Your monthly price plan is what is stated on your account.  

 

“We’re writing to let you know about the Retail Price Index (RPI) change to your monthly price plan(s), which will take effect from 30th March 2018. The RPI figure published by the Office for National Statistics in January 2018 is 4.1%.”

 

 


 What EE have written there is not the contract, its a statement of intent.

 

In the contract the RPI is applied to the 'price plan charge', the definition of it is:

 

‘Price Plan Charge’
the charge for the Price Plan Service, which comprises the Monthly Charge for the Price Plan.
 
‘Price Plan’
the bundle of Services including any Allowance provided to You by
Us each month in exchange for Your payment of the Price Plan Charge as
detailed in Your Price Guide
 
 
‘Monthly Charge’
the amount that You pay each month in advance for Your Price Plan Service
 
 
I ask again, where does it say the RPI increase applies before or after discount?
 
by nittyg Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

Your wasting your time asking them for any reference in the terms.

 

They won't post any as there isn't any refuting to my point

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

@ppop  You seem very keen on proving something here so I’ll just say this.  Show me where is says the RPI increase will be added to what you pay each month.

 

   It does very clearly say to your monthly price plan, The monthly price plan is what is visible on your account when you open up your account.    

 

 

 

 

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@Chris_Bwrote:

@ppop  Show me where is says the RPI increase will be added to what you pay each month.

 

   It does very clearly say to your monthly price plan, The monthly price plan is what is visible on your account when you open up your account.    

 

 

 

 


I have already shown you, in the terms it very clearly says:

7.4
Your Price Plan Charge include an annual price increase.
I have already given you the definition of price plan charge, 'what you pay'.
 
It certainly does not 'clearly' say the RPI is applied 'to your monthly price plan' in your contract, which is the legal document that matters.
What EE write when you open your online account is irrelevent, its what is in the contract that matters.
 
As I said, show me where in the contract it says the RPI increase is applied to the discount or non discount price plan charge? This is the whole point, it doesn't say... regardless of what EE try to say or do..
 

 

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

783FD0B0-1600-47AC-8420-D893785AE149.jpeg

 

That’s clear to me

 

  Monthly price plan.     The monthly price plan is on your account as I’ve been saying.   

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

The picture you have shown is NOT the contract,

 

PLEASE, read the contract.

 

This is not about what EE would like the contract to say.

 

It is about what the contract ACTUALLY says.

 

The RPI increase is applied to the 'price plan charge', this is defined as 'what you pay'

by Brilliant Contributor
Brilliant Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

Your contract which you signed will also show the full price before any discounts


BrendonH (Android Expert) Samsung Galaxy S10+ (Android 10 Beta)
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by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@BrendonHwrote:

Your contract which you signed will also show the full price before any discounts


Yes it will.

 

But it doesn't show whether the RPI increase is applied to the pre or post discount price.

 

The contract only defines that the RPI increase will apply to the 'price you pay'.

 

My interpretation of 'price you pay' is what comes out of my bank account.

 

After you wouldn't spend time negotiating a nice discount on a new car, then pay full price.

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

And where does it say if you receive a discount the RPI will be on that discount charge.   The price plan charge is what it says on your account and that is what you agreed to pay, a discount is then applied if you receive one that doesn’t mean that the discounted charge is the price plan charge.    Open your account and look what your price plan says it is.   That’s what the RPI is applied too.  If you don’t understand stand that then perhaps you’re better off switching to a PAYG sim.  

 

7.4 Your Price Plan Charge and the Charges for Additional Commitment Services include an annual price increase, which will be the annual percentage increase in the Retail Price Index (RPI) published by the Office for National Statistics. The increase will take effect in March of each year and use the RPI figure published in January of that year. 

by ppop Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w


@Chris_Bwrote:

And where does it say if you receive a discount the RPI will be on that discount charge.   The price plan charge is what it says on your account and that is what you agreed to pay, a discount is then applied if you receive one that doesn’t mean that the discounted charge is the price plan charge.    Open your account and look what your price plan says it is.   That’s what the RPI is applied too.  If you don’t understand stand that then perhaps you’re better off switching to a PAYG sim.  

 

7.4 Your Price Plan Charge and the Charges for Additional Commitment Services include an annual price increase, which will be the annual percentage increase in the Retail Price Index (RPI) published by the Office for National Statistics. The increase will take effect in March of each year and use the RPI figure published in January of that year. 


'Price plan charge' is defined as 'the price you pay', it doesn't say if that is before or after discount.

 

EE have not written the contract clearly.

by Grand Master
Grand Master

Re: RPI increase applies to full tariff not the monthly charge I actually pay, w

@ppop. The T&Cs are not taking discounts in to consideration as the majority of customers don’t get a discount so the T&Cs are applicable to all customers regardless even if you get a discount or not.   And as stated the RPI is on the tariff charge not your discount charge and the tariff charge is what is stated on your account.    

 

Do you agree that the price of your contract is stated on your account under plan and add-ons ?     You might no pay the stated price if you receive a discount but the price of that tariff is what is stated on that page and it’s that that the RPI is based on as a discount price is not the contract price of your particular tariff.  At no point did you agree to a discount price as the discount is applied to the contract price and the contract price is the full cost of the tariff and that is what you agreed too.   Your discount is applied to the full tariff charge but it’s still a “what ever it says on your account” £XXXX. tariff regardless of what you actually play. 

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