by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Project Treble and EE

Well its worth asking even though i strongly believe we won't get an answer but deep breath..

 

What are EEs plan in regard to Project Treble and Googles wanting to ensure its latest OS updates reach its users as quickly as possible.

 

What is project treble?

Treble

The Android 8.0 release includes Project Treble, a major re-architect of the Android OS framework designed to make it easier, faster, and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android. Treble is for all new devices launching with Android 8.0 and beyond.

 

Source: https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble

 

We're all aware (or should be aware) EE devices have firmware changed and controlled by EE and this is being foreseen as a hindrance to Treble and the improvements being made to update roll outs.

 

Which? has already picked up on this

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/05/project-treble-googles-plan-to-make-android-updates-quicker/

 

So I’m hoping to get some clear information on EEs plans for Treble and joining Goggle in improving the update process.  I understand some device manufactures have yet to fully embrace Treble but there are a number of device that have started including the Sony Xperia XZ2, Nokia 7 as well as all Pixel phones which can already take advantage of Treble and upgrade to Android P beta today and all are being provided via EE

 

List of devices

https://developer.android.com/preview/devices/

 

I would like EE to provide clear information for all to read and understand detailing their plan for Treble and improvements to Androids update process. 

 

As Which says "Providers like Vodafone and EE run their own tests too, which causes further delays." as consumers we look forward to this delay being removed.

11 REPLIES 11
by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

I see a number of posts have been removed from this thread i assume from the forum admins.

 

I've had no notification about this on the feedback i shared or the question asked in this thread, why is this?

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

More information in regard to Google making improvements to the update process for Android.

 

XDA report David Kleidermacher, Google’s head of Android platform security saying 

 

“We’ve also worked on building security patching into our OEM agreements. Now this will really … lead to a massive increase in the number of devices and users receiving regular security patches.” 

 

XDA goes on to say

 

Google releases monthly security patch bulletins that list patches for known vulnerabilities. These security patch bulletins are released to the public generally in the first week of each month, however, OEMs and vendors receive the monthly security patches a month in advance. This gives OEMs and vendor times to patch vulnerabilities before the security bulletin is made public; it’s how companies like Essential are able to provide security patch updates on the same day as Google.

Google hasn’t required OEMs to update their devices with the latest security patches, though generally, larger OEMs offer them for at least their flagship devices to assure customers that their devices are secure. A recent report revealed that some OEMs have missed patches from monthly Android security bulletins, and data shows that many devices fail to receive security patch updates in a timely manner. Google wants to change that.

 

The company has a few programs in place to bind their partners to certain terms. One of them is the GMS partner program, and another is the Android partner program. Companies in the latter program work closely with Google to make sure their devices are compliant with Google’s requirements for the latest version of Android (specified in the Compatibility Definition Document and tested by the Compatibility Test Suite.) Android partners also receive new Android releases faster than other companies; it’s why companies like Xiaomi, Essential, and OnePlus received early access to the Android P Developer Preview 2 while other companies seemingly did not. Now it seems that Google is reworking the agreement with their Android partners to include terms requiring regular security patches.

 

Unfortunately, there are few details available about the updated Android partner agreement. We don’t know how often Google will require their OEM partners to implement patches. Google is likely requiring OEMs to roll out security patches on a monthly basis as Google doesn’t want Android devices to stay unpatched, but we aren’t sure about the timeline in the agreement. We also don’t know if Google has provisions in place to verify that security patches are being properly implemented. Still, the Android partner program is hugely beneficial for OEMs to be in, so it’s in their best interests to abide by the changes even if there may be some internal disagreements with the decision. Hopefully, as Mr. Kleidermacher stated, this change will make sure that millions more Android users are kept secure against the latest security threats.

---

So leading on from my previous question, What is EE doing to ensure Googles drive to improve the delpoyment of updates is fulfilled.  

 

Also as the OEMs will be bound by an agreement will EE also be bound as the firmware on their devices its carrier specific.

 

 

by
EE Employee

Re: Project Treble and EE

Hi @Bellyman,

 

With the exception of the Google Pixel range, project Treble has only been implemented on a handful of devices that launched with Android Oreo. It isn’t implemented on devices that received updates to Oreo.

 

For example the Samsung S8, which was updated to Oreo, still uses the older development structure, while the S9 which launched with Oreo uses the ‘Treble’ structure.

 

As with all Android updates, it’s up to the manufacturer to implement and push out updates.

 

We at EE don’t make the software and have no reason to unnecessarily delay OS and security updates.

 

Regarding the removed posts, I’ve spoken to the mods and can see that the posts which were removed were at your request yesterday afternoon.

 

Thanks - Lee

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

Afternoon

 

Would an EE customer using an EE provided Sony Xperia XZ2 be able to upgrade to Android P beta via https://developer.android.com/preview/devices/ ?

Will future updates via the Treble project be subject to the same EE specific testing? Whilst EE does not want to unnecessarily delay updates its testing, quality control or due the way the service is managed by EE it does in fact cause delays. Delays that EE will provide no information or justification on and delays that cause a direct impact to its customers.

Also i did not ask for the posts to be removed i simply informed you of an issues. Also after a number of messages to a forum member i have received no reply, i have expressed how rude this is and again have been totally ignored. Why?

 

Mark

 

 

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

Are you willing to give any more information on Treble and EE?

 

I'm looking for confirmation EE will not add further delays to the update process that Google is working with manufactures to reduce

by Skilled Contributor
Skilled Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE


@Lee_H wrote:

 

 

We at EE don’t make the software and have no reason to unnecessarily delay OS and security updates.

 

 

Thanks - Lee


 

Yet you DO delay or decide not to release updates.  For one such example please answer me this.  Why did EE choose NOT to release the S8 CRC7 update that Samsung released? Every other UK network including unbranded thought that it was perfectly fine? 

 

We had to wait an extra month for the CRD7 update to appear.   Ok not every network has CRD7 yet but do you see what I am saying?  You claim that there's no reason to delay OS or security updates but someone found a reason not to release CRC7 patch at the start of April.  Therefore YES you are delaying software/security updates and not giving a valid reason why or updating users as per @Bellyman and many others suggestions to provide a transparent reason/update schedule. 

 

This "We at EE don’t make the software and have no reason to unnecessarily delay OS and security updates." is just flannel that you are being given from higher management.  We know you dont make the software but you do decide IF/WHEN to release it. Somebody somewhere IS making the decision NOT to release these updates or we would have them the same as all the other UK networks would'nt we?

 

 

by uvarvu Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

EE can't be blamed for all of this, remember the chipset and hardware manufacturers need to pull their fingers out as well.

 

But part of the blame lies with users.   Why do customers get sucked in by the likes of Samsung when they know full well how bad they are at rolling out updates?  The S9 series didn't even get 8.1 at launch, when do you think they will get 9?   Probably near year!

 

<< Sent from my 2XL running Android P since last week 😄 😄 >>

by Skilled Contributor
Skilled Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE


@uvarvu wrote:

EE can't be blamed for all of this, remember the chipset and hardware manufacturers need to pull their fingers out as well.

 

But part of the blame lies with users.   Why do customers get sucked in by the likes of Samsung when they know full well how bad they are at rolling out updates?  The S9 series didn't even get 8.1 at launch, when do you think they will get 9?   Probably near year!

 

<< Sent from my 2XL running Android P since last week 😄 😄 >>


I know what you are saying but this is a totally different argument.   Yes we know manufacturers are poor at releasing patches/updates.  When they do release them however, EE are NOT passing them on in a timely manner if at all!.  They are missing out patches, they ARE withholding updates that manufacturers are sending out and they are denying doing so.

 

  

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

I fall back to this "If these devices had a stock firmware and not a firmware where EE had some an involvement in its creation, content or roll out would we have have the updates at the same time or in the same time frame as the manufacturer intended". I strongly believe we would thus making any delay in the roll out down to EE.

So whilst EE do not intentionally delay updates and have no part in their "creation" or roll out their involvement in that process causes delays. This should be made clear at point of sale and information clearly presented for all to see as the devices being sold will not be as the manufacturer intends and subject to the same software updates or time frames. Worse still by not doing this it is misrepresenting the product the consuming is choosing.

A customer should be able to make a choice in full knowledge of what they're purchasing and while EE as a network does this well enough it goes out of its way to hide the firmware issues. Year on year device after device customer after customer asking the same questions and getting the same generic answer. Why? Because the answer isn't made clear from the start and they choose to never address it.

EE the question should be "Why are so many people asking the same questions of us over and over and how can i change that to improve my customers experience?"

by uvarvu Established Contributor
Established Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

You only have to look at the few pages of this forum and you'll see a a lot of posts asking when phone X is getting update X - wish more peeps would think about this more before purchasing a phone.

 

If software matters to you then get a pixel!

by Star Contributor
Star Contributor

Re: Project Treble and EE

It's not just a software issue. Some of the issues these updates resolve have a direct impact on the hardware due to fixes and improvements in services such as battery.  EE seems to have been able to allow the Pixel range to be upgraded workout much impact from themselves,  thus allowing Pixel users to enjoy a better product. This only highlights the impact EE has and yet denies. 

 

All roads lead to EE causing delays which is fine if you're open up front and more so honest about it with your customers .

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