topic Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution in Broadband & Landline

Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 18:37:56 GMT

Last Friday, we eagerly upgraded from 72mb EE internet to Full Fibre Gigabit (900) and have had nothing but issues ever since. We already had a Smart Hub Plus SH31B so EE didn't send new equipment.

We are seeing terribly slow speeds, EE's speed test within their own app often showing 2-4 Mbps (nowhere near the guaranteed 700 Mbps) and Openreach's preferred speed test site fast.com not going higher than 140 Mbps at all. ee.co.uk itself takes almost 2 minutes to load all the images, it looks like I'm back on dialup from the 90s.

2 Mbps on EE's own speed test within their app

Packet loss is unbearable and makes gaming impossible, and video streaming on netflix, disney+, amazon prime video is impossible as it constantly buffers, seemingly due to the packet loss.

packet loss on Call of Duty PS5 (connected via ethernet)packet loss on Xbox (connected via ethernet)

traceroute to EE's primary DNS server listed on the SH+packetlosstest.com result

It's been almost impossible to get any support from EE's "Tech Guides", after the usual "lets try rebooting your router" they want to schedule an openreach engineer to visit. We've had 2 openreach engineers visit now, both have run multiple tests including their full SFFP test which show the line itself reaching speeds of 825 and 900. As soon as we reconnect to EE, speed is crawling again. Openreach have replaced the ONT, swapped the fibre to another port on the CBT, and confirmed no faults or alarms have been noted on the line. The light reading on the fibre into the property reads -15, which is meant to be a good strength. Openreach also rebuilt the config their side, but no change.

Openreach tried to get through to someone higher up at EE to escalate and were told EE would send a new Smart Hub Plus SH31B, we waited for this to arrive and it didn't make any difference either. There literally is nothing else we / openreach can do at our property to eliminate issues so we're stuck hitting a brick wall trying to get EE to investigate further.

What makes it worse, also last Friday our next door neighbour had their full fibre upgrade, 500 Mbps through BT Retail, and they are getting their full service and not experiencing the same problems. They are connected to the same CBT as us (its just us 2 connected as it's only just become available in the area)

EE tech guides claim they've never heard of anyone have such issues, although the Openreach engineers hinted that the majority of their repair calls at the moment are to EE customers with issues not too dissimilar to ours.

Has anyone else had similar issues on EE's Full Fibre service and reached a positive conclusion with EE? Any advice on how best to escalate this would be appreciated

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 09:53:04 GMT

I am seeing similar on a new Full Fibre install from EE. EE speed tests within the app show 2mbps download when I am guaranteed 700mbps, and EE have zero interest in fixing it 7 days later. We've had 2 openreach engineer visits, swapped the ONT, Smart Hub, all cables and yet still no fix offered. Our neighbours had Sky full fibre installed the same day as us, and aren't seeing these issues.

The core servers where I'm seeing high packet loss are all around the same range

62.6.204.98
62.6.204.99
62.6.204.100
62.6.204.101

Did anyone get anywhere with EE tech support actually taking these reports seriously? Gaming, video streaming and video calls are all affected as the packet loss is pretty constant throughout the past 7 days at least

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 10:48:54 GMT

The addresses that you mentioned -

62.6.204.98
62.6.204.99
62.6.204.100
62.6.204.101

Are all core routers in the main BT core network - AS2856

I have now tracked down that some, if not all the drops that I was seeing on my EE router were not on the local copper or fibre section but were on the BT core network or where Openreach connects to the BT core network run by BT Wholesale (if I remember correctly).

Openreach can do whatever they do on the local loop (copper or fibre) and it will not effect the situation with some of the drops; if not all the drops.

There seems to be now process or procedure in either BT Retail or EE to report this type of issue and even if the front office accepts it there is now way of getting it fixed unless you escalate it to senior staff in EE or BT Retail.

This might even get worse with the greater number of customers going through these core routers. I have noticed on my connection that they do re-router the connections into the core regularly, but after a while they go back to the high latency and drops.

I have attached the latest monitor of the path to SamKnows, who provide monitoring for OFCOM. Not Good.

Sorry it's not good news

Keep safe

Regards

Infinidim (John)

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:29:50 GMT

any idea how best to escalate this to someone who can look into it?

I can't get past the "have you restarted your router" followed by "we'll send an openreach engineer" loop. I've had 2 ONT boxes, 2 Smart Hub Plus routers, 2 new ethernet cables, 2 openreach engineer visits and still haven't reached anyone who can actually look into the issue. I'm on the 900mbps plan with a speed guarantee of 700mbps and EE's own speed test in the EE app reports just 2-5 mbps download speed, with a continuous 5-7% packet loss when gaming or video streaming

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:52:06 GMT

@evans57

Did the Openreach engineers give you any hint of where they thought the issue was?

I am assuming that you did your speed tests on an ethernet connected device, is that correct? If it is via a WiFi device, what device was it?

The only way I ended up getting something done to improve the situation is to contact them (EE front desk) again, again and get them to make a formal escalation out of it. They have wasted so far just a few hundred pounds getting Openreach engineers out to the issue as Openreach charge EE and BT Retail for all calls that are made on the Openreach engineers. The equipment will just go into the pool to be refurbished, fixed and sent out again.

Make sure you have all the VOL case numbers that have caused the actions on the 2 ONT boxes, 2 Smart Hub Plus routers, 2 new ethernet cables, 2 Openreach engineer visits as they will be on your customer services record for EE / BT Retail. You can then say to them these are the cases etc. and nothing has happened.

OFTON can take the complaint but it only goes into the list for their stats.

The Ombudsman Commission Communications, you can go to but it takes a very long time. EE would have to not be able to fix the issue, EE would have to send you a "dead lock" letter saying hey couldn't get it fixed as well and then it takes a long time for the Ombudsman to go through their process.

Please don't ask in public area how I know all this but I do,

Please keep me updated on how it is going as a FTTP (fibre to the home) based broadband should not have these sort of issues.

Regards

Infinidim (John)

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:10:03 GMT

The openreach engineers believe it's somewhere on EE's network, they ran i think SFFP tests from their phones and when EE's kit was bypassed, the line would display 825 mbps download and 110 mbps upload. As soon as it's going through the EE network again, speeds are 2-5 mbps download and 110 mbps upload.

It feels like it's an EE configuration / provisioning issue as our neighbour, connected via the same CFT, is on a 400mbps package and is getting their full speed and not experiencing the same packet loss. They are with BT

You'd think (and hope) EE are getting alarms and alerts about the packet loss and slow speeds on their kit. Hopefully they monitor it once in a while

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:16:00 GMT

This is a mtr to the Primary DNS Server listed on the EE router, 81.139.56.100

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

Mustrum — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:28:29 GMT

@evans57 not much to see there, no packet loss, just those routers not responding to pings.

Not sure the Openreach comments help, EE like BT Retail use BTW's core network, this really needs investigating by 2nd line, good luck trying to get hold of them.

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 17:35:53 GMT

There is definitely packet loss on the line, games skip continually, video streaming buffers continually, video calls stutter as they catch up

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 21:43:36 GMT

@evans57

I understand about the SFFP test. It really only tests the Openreach part of the network where it connects to the access layer if the core network (BT Wholesale) in your case.

Unless there is an issue in the copper / fibre Openreach part it will come up clean like it did in you case.

It was specifically design when Openreach was setup to look into the Openreach part of the BT Broadband solution as well as all the other broadband companies that use Openreach as their access layer. e. g. Vodafone uses Openreach for it's copper broadband solution.

Regards

John

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 22:04:08 GMT

@Mustrum

The information I put up on the forum is only part of what I use here on the EE Broadband we have.

The pings are useful because this allows me to monitor when reroutes happen in the access and core network. My Ofcom / SamKnows equipment allows me to see when I have drops, latency, download, upload, jitter, and various other things.

Various screens in the EE router allow me to see what impacts the access / backbone network is having on me as a customer.

The biggest issue that all of us have as customers is the if it is not what I would call simple issue - drops on copper / fibre, router miss-behaving, internal wiring issues etc. then the only way to get it fixed is get it escalated. Then there are not many processes / procedures to pass issues in BT Wholesale.

Regards

Infinidim (John)

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 22:13:40 GMT

@evans57

I have looked at the data stream using Wireshark going to a number of locations I use and there are a lot of retransmissions and packet drops which often impact the useability of my apps.

Regards

John

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

RachT123 — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 20:13:25 GMT

Hi John and @evans57,

I'm not sure if you are aware that you can do this but it might be worth connecting a device directly to the ONT to see if that gets the speeds you're paying for. Refer to this for more details on how:

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/support/faq/921/

The login details are here: https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/using-and-configuring-a-third-party-router

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 21:47:31 GMT

@RachT123

I was aware of the ability to connect to the ONT directly using the method described in the URL's that you posted.

My issue has always been within the core BT network not in the access later - fibre or copper.

My background is actually working with technology and telecoms for quite a while.

Regards

Infinidim

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:49:26 GMT

Interestingly if I connect to NordVPN, choosing Netherlands in this case, fast.com shows 400 Mbps and things like video streaming works correctly. When disconnecting from NordVPN on the same device, fast.com displays around 100 Mbps but video streaming constantly buffers even on a 30 second 1080p MP4 file (only a couple of mbs)

It seems to be a pretty big routing or peering issue

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Sun, 30 Jun 2024 23:07:03 GMT

@evans57

Definitely.

This is a real strange one.

I did some tests to fast.com. As I have NordVPN here and test with and without it. One without it to the UK where the fast.com server is actually in the UK (London it looks like) and one with NordVPN to the Amsterdam where the fast.com server appears to be in the Hague. The performance was actually what I expect speeds / latency etc. given the route that the VPN takes to the Netherlands. I know it will go from the UK AS2856 to the AS5400 in the Netherlands via one of two gatway locations in the UK to the Netherlands. Ironically the route to the Netherlands is all on BT IP networks - both AS's are owned by some part of BT.

The Amsterdam link to fast.com uses one of the Dutch networks to link to AS5400.

That's all I can find out from here.

Regards

John

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

navzptc — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 11:48:02 GMT

Thank you for your message above regarding using Nordvpn to try speeds outside the UK, and after trying a few countries found that my speed reported by Fast.com was significantly higher than trying direct!!

I changed over from Plusnet to EE to get the 1.6gb service and found some of my local speedtest sites (South Coast sites) were reporting speeds less than half than on my old 900mb service, and initially thought my router was the cause!!

Have now found a few which do report expected speeds, but quite a few are still showing very low speeds ☹️

This definitely needs looking into by the relevant departments.

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

infinidim — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 12:45:59 GMT

@navzptc

Plusnet use exactly the same access copper / fibre as EE and BT Retail as they are part of the BT GROUP.

Also the same backbone for the broadband service.

John

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

SwannyD2 — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 17:18:02 GMT

Hi all,

Posting this here because it sounds very similar to the problems I was having. Upload unaffected, just download.

Story here; https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/Routing-problem/m-p/140030

I ended up having an engineer booked to come out on Saturday morning, and at 8.20 I got a text saying ‘we’ve fixed the fault’. No visit needed.

Sure enough, a reboot of the router and ONT and I’m now getting my full speeds.

Unfortunately, because there was no engineer visit, I have no idea what the problem was or what they did to resolve it. But I’m happy for Support to take a look at my account to see it’s something that might be resolved for others.

Re: Upgraded to Full Fibre - Low Speed, High Packet Loss, No Resolution

evans57 — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 17:47:38 GMT

Thanks for updating with your experience @SwannyD2

I've got an "escalated" openreach engineer due to attend on Wednesday, so really crossing my fingers that the right people will now investigate and I will have a similar outcome 🤞🏻