topic Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work in Broadband & Landline

Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 12:47:06 GMT

I live in a rural area (actually in a wood). I have copper wires (laid through the wood from fibre off a road) for my broadband and landline. My EE contract is up in June and I believe that I will not be able to continue with my landline. Upon checking with EE staff in one of your shops, they stated because my house does not have fibre broadband, the VOIP option would not work over the existing copper wires, unless fibre is laid to the house.

There are two issues with this - firstly, we can't get a mobile signal at home (I receive calls on my mobile via Wi Fi, and the quality of calls isn't brilliant and doesn't always work ), and secondly, we're prone to power cuts. The last big one (storm Arwen) lasted for 5 days. We were only able to contact the electric company via the landline (we were waiting for two hours on a call, so couldn't hang around taking or waiting for a call some way away from the cottage).

Not having an analogue landline is therefore a problem for us - we will have to buy another new smart phone that we don't need at present (we currently use one between us), and during a power cut will find it difficult to contact the electricity provider (as the Wi Fi calling won't work - the other option is to tramp 400 yards away to get a signal possibly in a raging storm).

Is it physically impossible for us to keep our existing landline, or are EE and other suppliers just making things difficult for customers like me (and I appreciate there must be very few in our position)?

I hope this is clear - sorry for the length!

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

JimM11 — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:22:27 GMT

@pcwood In your first paragraph, VOIP can and does work over copper, has done for many many years. The main problem is new contracts with ISP's now OR are making changes which push the landline to operate from the Ethernet VOIP structure rather than the old PSTN network. This is now pushed back to 2027 from OR, but if your exchange is one for change then there may not be the option. Not sure if you leave everything alone that they can force the change on you, but if you do re-negotiate for price etc, then you will pushed down that path. Checking the OR wholesale site BT Broadband (btwholesale.com) with your number or address will let you know. If you know what your service is but does sound like you may be on a fttc as you mention fibre/copper supply. And don't listen to what the shop staff tell you, its good you have asked the question. HTH

And if you do not get a mobile signal, that should be the first red flag to any isp about making you go to digital voip.

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:32:33 GMT

Thanks JimM11 - when I went onto EE to look at the contract renewal options, it was made quite clear that I couldn't have a landline (I think I had to tick a box to confirm that I understood this). I left it, and am tempted to leave it and see what happens. BTW, this is what I got from the BT wholesale site - double dutch to me!

FTTP is not available.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Thank you for your interest

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

JimM11 — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:45:26 GMT

@pcwood There is something wrong in the renewal process, i would look closely at this, with an existing telephone that you have it must be with EE, they cannot force you to drop this option. have a look at the table from OR link again, Below is my option the table with WBC SOGEA is the killer, means they want to kill your landline and force it over digital which you don't want..... RED flag is you have no other means of communication when the power is out........

VDSL Range A (Clean)
VDSL Range B (Impacted)

45.4	35	10.3	6	32.4	Unavailable	Available
44.1	32	10	5.4	27.2	Unavailable	Available

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:17:05 GMT

Thanks - the existing landline is with EE, and I've just been on the site to look at renewal options again and it's stating the landline will be withdrawn.

I've written to them, stating my position (I'm a pensioner too), as I want them to put something in writing.

Cheers

Paul

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

Mustrum — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:26:31 GMT

@pcwood An EE shop may not be the best place to get broadband advice, and your story highlights this.

@JimM11 you are not quite right with what you say. Since September last year and the stop sell with analogue and other products, SOGEA just means new analogue products are not available, however existing contracts may be extendable.

There are also lots of false stories re Digital Voice - which by the way is just BT/EE proprietary nave for their VOIP solution.

@pcwood could you post the rest of the BTW table which will help us give you better advice?

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

XRaySpeX — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:23:29 GMT

These BB contracts don't just end nor need renewing, just the min. term expires. They are not fixed term contracts. After the min. term they just carry on at the non-discounted price on a rolling 14-days' notice basis until you explicitly migrate, cancel or upgrade.

If you don't cancel what you have now, which is FTTC BB + analogue landline, nothing will change until nearer 2027.

Please would you post the table that goes with the BTw Availability Checker.

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:22:59 GMT

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

Mustrum — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:34:25 GMT

Thanks @pcwood the table shows two things:

1. Your speeds are much slower than they should be - do you have a filtered master socket?

2. You could easily get digital voice but given your circumstances should ensure you get battery back up for the router and phone where not plugged into the router.

What is the price difference between your out of contract price and the renewal offer?

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:59:22 GMT

Mustrum

Thanks - this is a picture of the socket - filtered or not? The speed is around 30-40 mb, enough for streaming etc and pretty much as advertised.

Agree re battery back up if I can keep the phone.

Current cost is £32 (inc £5 discount) per month, inc landline, offer without landline is £29. So I'm guessing it'll be £37 per month going forward if I leave it?

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

JimM11 — Thu, 23 May 2024 15:13:58 GMT

@pcwood If you read XraySpex reply earlier, leave alone, your out of contract price will probably go up, or call EE CS before to get your new price. Nothing is 100% reliable but what you have has worked for a long time, sure i would not rely on a ups backed voip system from anyone, and even your mobile over wi-fi connection is not brilliant also. Too many RED flags!!!!

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

Mustrum — Thu, 23 May 2024 15:30:12 GMT

@pcwood Thanks for that, that is not a filtered master socket. Do you have any extension sockets? If so they could be reducing your speeds. The BTW suggests you should be getting near double the 30 it shows you are getting, so worth getting that sorted before you do anything else.

As @XRaySpeX has already pointed out, you could carry on as is, but sooner or later, sometime between now and 2027 the analogue phone service will stop. Unless I missed it I did not see what you would be paying if you did nothing, I suspect somewhere around £50.

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

JimM11 — Thu, 23 May 2024 15:42:49 GMT

@Mustrum Seems like most ISP's like to change the line as soon as they can and use the new contract as the first opportunity to do so, looks like EE don't even want to do the line from the OP's post. I have an fttc line, and resisted tooth and nail with sky my previous ISP to not go digital with there version which is similar to BT/EE, the OP does not want to change his operation at present and cannot blame him, eventually there will be no choice but at least now a couple of years away.

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

Mustrum — Thu, 23 May 2024 16:12:56 GMT

@JimM11 Your bias is not helping the op here.

They do not have a couple of years, it will depend on where in the country they are and when their exchange is due to close. Where they have had the technology available some ISP’s have moved people to a digital solution for a while, EE has been more recent. Others have decided not to offer a VOIP solution, broadband only. And as already said, since the Stop Sell Sept last year, no ISP using BTW exchange equipment could offer a new analogue voice option. LLU suppliers may be different.

The OP got told the wrong info at an EE store, but as I see it has two options - pay out of contract prices until the inevitable exchange closure, or save money on broadband and go with digital voice.

There are other waysfor the rural community to exploit other available technologies

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

pcwood — Thu, 23 May 2024 16:18:28 GMT

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I've put my concerns in writing to EE customer service and will see what they say, with an eye to sitting tight unless forced to do to otherwise.

Re: Landline retention - VOIP doesn't work

JimM11 — Thu, 23 May 2024 18:02:44 GMT

@pcwood Just some more info for you, and call 150 to register as vulnerable customer.

Vulnerability policy | Accessibility support | EE

BT Updates UK Digital Voice Switchover Plan After Deadline Extension - ISPreview UK