topic Re: 1.6GB only for new customers? in Broadband & Landline

1.6GB only for new customers?

Holiam2024 — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 16:21:14 GMT

I just spoke with your sales team. I have 900MB full fibre broadband and asked about upgrading to 1.6GB. I was told that this offer was only for new customers.

Now I'm aware a lot of companies don't allow a downgrade whilst in contract, but this is the first time i've been told by a service provider that I am not able to upgrade even if i agree to the same T&C's duration etc.

Please tell me this is not your standard policy and the sales team member got it wrong?

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:07:44 GMT

@Holiam2024 you are not the first to ask, and no doubt will not be the last.

Have a read of this and other similar posts. https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/1-6GB-Busiest-Home-Bundle-only-available-for-new-subscribers/td-p/1463998

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Matt_124 — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:53:25 GMT

It is not a matter of EE not wanting you to upgrade, it is due to the new ordering and management system used for 1Gb+ orders. (directly provisioned with Openreach as opposed to using BTWholesale i believe)

These Busiest Home Bundles and Broadband Made For Gamers packages use a completely different backend system and until these are combined/linked/migrated onto one platform existing customers aren't able to upgrade to it due to (most-likely) contractual supplier reasons. It is not a policy of not allowing for upgrades.

If, for example, you were on Full Fibre 500 and looking to upgrade to Full Fibre 900 this would be simple to facilitate and would take effect within days with no issues. There is just an added layer of complexity they really need to work through to open this up.

As far as we've heard, EE are looking to make these speeds available to everyone at some point but it has been a while with no real update...

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Customer_404 — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 20:10:14 GMT

I have noticed, whilst looking at different packages, that if you take EE TV then the max speed you can get is 900mb whereas if you have Broadband only you can go up to 1.6gb.

I would upgrade if we could!

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Holiam2024 — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 09:44:10 GMT

It was Openreach that installed me fibre

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Holiam2024 — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 09:45:46 GMT

I don't have TV - or at least I never requested it?

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Matt_124 — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 17:20:16 GMT

Hi @Holiam2024

Openreach install all Fibre on the Openreach network, they are the only people qualified to do so.

Openreach complete the engineering work regardless of what provider/wholesaler places an order if it is on their network.

BTWholesale essentially acts as a middleman between EE (amongst other providers) and Openreach. This has been the case for BT for years, and for New EE when it launched last year.

The issue is that BTWholesale do not offer 1.6Gb packages as of yet, therefore EE had to go to Openreach directly to launch this as quickly as possible.

This means that currently EE customers are split across two separate ordering and management systems, with those on the 1.6Gb plans on a separate and newer system to everyone else.

This also possibly explains why features like Digital Home Phone and TV are not available, as EE would have delivered these in combination with BTWholesale previously (Multicast for example for TV), but now needs to get it arranged directly with Openreach.

For what are likely contractual reasons, this means customers are unable to upgrade from the other Full Fibre packages to 1.6Gb packages mid-contract. Most likely this is because of the contract EE would have with BTWholesale not being able to be upgraded.

As for why it can't be done on renewal when fully out of contact, it actually probably can, but it could cause some significant disruption for customers with changing contracts and Engineer visits to install new kit. It is probably easier to not allow it yet for everyone until it has become a more polished process, as well as there not being a tremendous demand for such speeds from the majority of customers.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 22:17:22 GMT

@Matt_124 You have a strange , but wrong understanding of how the BT Group works.

Openreach's remit is to deliver connectivity from the customers premises to the nearest exchange., This includes fibre and copper services.

Consumer provides the direct interface from customers Included are BT Retail as it was known, EE and Plusnet. All operating independently with their own systems. However strategy concluded EE should lead with Consumer products, BT Retail with Business products, and PN to pick up a no frills service for those who want it.

BTW, or Networks provide the infrastructure to deliver the products to the customers which has grown in capability, they provide the backbone and backhaul infrastructure in-between the exchanges and gateways across the country. the model to deliver those products is as it always has been.

What has changed is New EE has come along, but developed from BT Retail, or independently, but not from EE and hence legacy EE customers not able to enjoy BT Retail benefits, nor New EE ones. On top of that to deliver the new 1.6Gb service some odd workarounds seem to have been put in place meaning DV and TV are not able to be combined. One possibility may be due to the inability to control such a wide asymmetrical difference in the new product in extreme conditions.

Hope this helps/

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Matt_124 — Tue, 05 Nov 2024 01:13:17 GMT

Yeah in fairness what you say makes sense, I think my understanding of BTWholesale and BT Retail as an entity may have got a few wires crossed, however I feel like swapping the names around it kind of matches what I was thinking/trying to get at.

The reality in my mind is even when checking the BTWholesale checker, it only shows up to 1000, whereas the Openreach fibre checker shows the maximum available.

Hence the emphasis, in my mind at least, on "BTWholesale" as the link in the chain that is preventing 1.6Gb being deployed as an addition on top of the existing tech stack as the rest of the New EE plans (Sub-1Gb) are.

Glad to be corrected on it, I appreciate it. Just a lot of moving independent parts to make sense of in there that probably don't matter much to the average customer.

@Mustrum as I understood it, BT Consumer are the anchor tenant of BT Wholesale so have no choice but to purchase their services from BT Wholesale, however the New EE 1Gb+ plans are sidestepping this in order to provision these services.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

robh661 — Tue, 05 Nov 2024 06:25:20 GMT

That’s an ongoing problem, I’ve tried about 3 times, to get the 1.6gb.
But if the speed is faster then what we’re currently getting i.e 900mb.
Why is the 1.6gb cheaper at £69.99, because if that’s the wholesale price, then EE should reduce the price of their current packages. And not increase them.
Because I did have DV, but got rid of it. Just leaving the EETV.
So I think they need to stop pushing that 1.6gb package until it’s fairly priced and available to everyone old or new customers.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:51:34 GMT

@Matt_124 there is no sidestepping going on.

Openreache's checker has always shown the max speed technology available at an address. When it was ADSL/VDSL it was pretty useless as it gave no clue what speeds customers would actually get. But now with fibre available people are jumping to it, rather than going to the ISP website to see what products are available to them.

As for the BTW checker, fo not forget it is called a DSL Checker, it shows accurate details of the speed available on DSL products. But now that fibre is available the fibre section is not so handy, and people really do need to go to their ISP for available fibre speeds. BTW od not so able to determine if a customer take 40GbFF or 1.6Gb, its role is to ensure the traffic gets from the exchange to the other end.

Bottom line customers need to use the ISP availability service, not take short cuts and use OR or BTW to determine what customer facing products they can get.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Carwynba — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 20:31:36 GMT

Openreach is owned by BT the OFC needs to be notified of this. I have been a loyal BT customer for 20 years. Please advise where the ombudsman’s stance is on this. Profiting again. Look forward to a prompt reply.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 20:37:44 GMT

@Carwynba what is it you think is a problem?

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

JimM11 — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 20:41:36 GMT

@Carwynba Do not think that you will find anywhere that BT own Openreach, and sure that is what you would also be told by the ombudsman should you ever get to that stage!

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 21:03:32 GMT

@JimM11 is it me not understanding people this evening? Openreach is clearly past of BT Group.

https://www.bt.com/about/bt/our-company/group-businesses

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

JimM11 — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 21:25:32 GMT

@Mustrum No you are correct the BT Group own and operate 4 independent companies, BT / EE / Plusnet & Openreach.

BT Does not own Openreach, and allegedly OR should not favour any of those in the group over other specific customers, if so offcom should have plenty to say about it and come down hard on which ever one.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:01:31 GMT

OK, maybe not me, so to expand, Ofcom many years ago due to BT's dominant position in the market dictated that Openreach must act independently and treat all ISP's equally. So no favours for anyone, and BT (ISP) customers and staff have to use the same interfaces as any other ISP provider or customer.

That said, Altnet suppliers such as Virgin Media, Gigaclear, City Fibre, Community fibre and many more because of their current minority share of the market are not subject to the same restrictions.

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Carwynba — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:15:09 GMT

I think you'll find they do under a loophole. Have colleagues working for both and it's all closed and daggers. Managed to find out in my time with BT that emails to the Customer complaints dept was to an IP address. I have it all stored 👍. Tax evasion who knows but corrupt yes....... will leave and let them chase me with a CCJ disgracefully ran organisation as is all large corporations. Where money is money goes

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Carwynba — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:21:16 GMT

A call to the ombudsman then we have rights. Loyal 20 year customer and the tech is there and the infrastructure in place it’s discrimination for profits but new customers get cheapest deals????? Wow please answer EE

Re: 1.6GB only for new customers?

Mustrum — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:24:24 GMT

@Carwynba you are making no sense, what is the issue you are trying to raise?