topic Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill? in Contracts & Billing

Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Marrabob82 — Thu, 23 Feb 2023 13:17:06 GMT

Hi all

Not sure if anything like this has been asked recently, but if you have a handset contract, and you don't pay the bill, can EE block the handset or is it just the SIM that they block. Could I just put a Pay As You Go SIM in and use it that way instead?

Thankyou

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Chris_B — Thu, 23 Feb 2023 13:30:08 GMT

@Marrabob82 Yes EE can block the handset as it’s part of the contract.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

maxkelby92 — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 00:51:44 GMT

@Marrabob82 EE own the device for the first 6 months of the contract, they state as much in their terms and conditions. If you’re within the first 6 months of your contract and you default on payments and don’t respond to communications from EE to resolve the situation then yes they will blacklist both the phone (so it cannot be sold or used on any network) and the SIM card (your account). After the first 6 months ownership of the device transfers to you and you’re allowed to sell it if you wanted. Whether or not they can/will blacklist the device after the first 6 months I don’t know, but I will assume not as you own it not them. They will definitely blacklist your SIM though and chase you for any monies owed via the debt collection process as well as wreck your credit file.

Perhaps someone from EE could shed some light on this? As in what happens after the first 6 months if you were to default on payments in the 7th month or later?

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Jank0x — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 18:30:43 GMT

Yes, as others said the device can be blocked off access to the network as well as the SIM card.

You may also have debt agents knocking on your door if you've not paid the bill for some time so they can collect the debt. Your credit file will also be wrecked.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

XRaySpeX — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 21:45:14 GMT

@maxkelby92 : Why only the 1st months? Altho' you may now own the device after 6 months you still owe EE on it & if you default they can blacklist it. Which will be unfortunate to whomever you may have sold it to.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Chris_B — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 09:48:56 GMT

@maxkelby92 The device can still blacklisted after 6 months it still forms part of the contract.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

maxkelby92 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:22:50 GMT

You’re not just paying for the device though @XRaySpeX you’re paying for the airtime as well as any other add-ons. If you own the device after six months as stated in their terms and conditions that makes it your property. If you default on payments they will suspend/terminate your service as well as follow the typical debt collection process (and completely wreck your credit file) and they can apply for a CCJ through court etc. but I believe they only blacklist a device within the first 6 months. You’re not allowed to sell a device within the first 6 months but you are allowed to after as you own it after 6 months. If you buy a phone on finance using a loan, for example, they don’t blacklist your phone because you owe them money as you own the stuff you purchased. They do however chase you for monies owed, shut down your loan account, trash your credit rating, etc.

also it mentions in the small print…

“2. Equipment
You may get Equipment from Us for free or for an upfront cost when You take out a Price Plan, or You may be able to take out a Finance Agreement to purchase Equipment from Us. Unless We tell You otherwise We will own any Equipment provided to You by Us for the first six months of the Minimum Term (see point 10.1). If You take out a Price Plan via a third party who is not EE and get Equipment from that third party when You take out the Price Plan, that third party may own any Equipment provided to You by them for the first six months of the Minimum Term (see point 10.2). During this time You will be required to take all reasonable care with the Equipment and keep it in good condition as if You owned it (see point 10.3.2). During that 6 month time period You must not give or sell the Equipment to anyone else without our prior written consent (see point 10.3.1). We will collect network data and Equipment details (using software installed on the Equipment) in order to Disable the Equipment in certain instances of fraud or non-payment occurring in the first 6 months (see points 11.1, 11.2 and 11.3). If You get Equipment from Us under a Finance Agreement, You will own the Equipment from the moment of purchase (see point 10.1). You will have to enter into a separate Finance Agreement and other terms will also apply to You.”

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Chris_B — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 11:08:38 GMT

@maxkelby92 You might legitimately own the device after 6 months but EE do not have to allow that device to work on their network and that’s their right to do so.

The network doesn’t belong to the user you have no legal right in order to access that network via a device that has been blacklisted because of none payment even after 6 months.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

maxkelby92 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 11:21:47 GMT

The blacklisting the OP was referring to I think is when they register the device as stolen and it won’t work on any network. EE would still have the right to stop it working on their network if they so choosed (though I still don’t believe they will block the device after 6 months just your service as it does specifically state in the terms and conditions what I highlighted in bold above) but I believe the blocking on all networks, which is done through a nationalised database I think, is only if you default within the first 6 months.

Most network providers don’t blacklist devices for accruing debt they follow normal debt collection procedures, which are heavily regulated. While EE own the equipment (first 6 months) they can do what they want with it, it’s their property. After the 6 months ownership transfers to you. Unless it’s specifically stated in the terms of the contract you signed any property owned by you is yours to do with as you please regardless of finance. Any powers the provider wishes to retain over that property must be stated in the terms of the contract, which it is, but only for the first 6 months. As is highlighted in bold in my earlier reply.

Btw I’m not recommending the OP defaults on his payments because that’s going to not only screw your credit file but subject you to debt collection processes and potentially a CCJ later on, none of which are nice. It’s far better to contact EE and try to come to an arrangement than ignore their letters. As a responsible lender they are legally obliged to help as best they can.

I’m merely stipulating the contract and trying to answer their original question as best I can. It would help if an actual EE employee could shed some light on this?

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Chris_B — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 11:56:38 GMT

@maxkelby92 If this went to a debt collector the debt collector would in theory own the device as they have taken that debt on themselves.
They can then request the device to be blacklisted.

The 6 month rule you stated is assuming fraud is the reason why the payment hasn’t been made within the first six months.

The contract that you agreed to has to be fulfilled before the device cannot be blacklisted as you’ve then seen out the contract term. The 6 month rule only states what you can/can not do in the first 6 months of taking out a full contract. There is no mention of not paying after 6 months of what will happen as that would be a breach of the contract for none payment and you agreed to pay the contract for the term of that contract period. EE can block access to their network because of none payment and breaching the contract that you agreed to and not just the services provided. EE don’t have to allow a device to work on their network because payment wasn’t made after 6 months and that’s their right and you still legally own the device, it’s their network and can choose to not allow access, you have no right to access something that’s not yours

I agree it’s not worth the hassle of not paying only to see a debt collector requesting payment and they put their own fees on top so you’ll end up paying more.

If anyone has a payment issue they need to call customer services and explain the situation and see what can be done to resolve this.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

maxkelby92 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 11:57:11 GMT

Fraud and debt are two different things. One is illegal, the other is not. Genuine hardship happens to many. Now ignoring EE’s communications could be seen as fraud but if you actively engage with them and try to come to an arrangement or provide hard evidence that you can’t afford the repayments (for example if you’ve lost your job) then they have to do their best to help you. Any payment arrangements would take into account your earnings. While on an arrangement your services may be restricted and you will obviously lose the ability to upgrade (at least until the debt is cleared) but they won’t blacklist your device for “fraud”. As for debt collectors they will never own the device. Ever. They purchase a figure of debt (a monetary sum) that is all. They have no power over your device and are heavily controlled with their debt collection procedures. You don’t even have to let debt agents into your home unless they have a court issued warrant (typically only granted to high court enforcement agents after a CCJ has been issued and ignored).

OP, if you’re in financial difficulty always contact EE as they’re legally obliged by the financial conduct authority to help in any way they can. With regards to the 6 month rule that applies to non payments within the first 6 months only. The fraud rule applies at anytime but genuine hardship is NOT FRAUD. Taking out a contract, refusing to pay it, then refusing to contact EE is different. That could be seen as fraud.

Re: Do EE blacklist handset if not paying bill?

Chris_B — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 09:49:59 GMT

@maxkelby92 But the question is not about “I can not afford to pay” and this just speculation on your part.
It was just can it be “blocked if I don’t pay”. The simple answer to that is yes it will be blocked. EE will not give access to their network because you defaulted on a full contract with a device supplied by them.