topic Re: is this ethical from ee? in Pay as you go

is this ethical from ee?

miffed5 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 19:31:37 GMT

opened 2 unused ee payg 6gb data sim cards today for emergency use, since the 1 year sim card in the mifi failed to connect (it was used less than 120 days ago) -- "new" cards failed to connect at all -- didnt even get through to the ee payg registration or renewal pages.

so, after getting through to ee customer support i am told the numbers have been reassigned and can no longer be used by the purchased cards!!! the cards were bought in september 2020 but both valid until 12/2028 according to the packaging. . unopened until today, so the 120 days/6 month inactivity excuse shouldnt apply since they have never been activated.

so ee have issued cards that could not be used for the purpose they were intended? i stress the packaging clearly states they are valid until 12/2028.

is this responsible or even ethical behaviour of a large commercial organisation? is it fraud, selling something that is subsequently intentionally rendered not fit for purpose? 3 cards purchased and are not fit for purpose. ee customer support tells me to take it up with the original supplier. but it is not the supplier's fault.

will i be buying ee data sim cards ever again? same goes for home broadband. unacceptable behaviour.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

XRaySpeX — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:27:05 GMT

@miffed5 : If you haven't used them for more than 9 months they have 1st gone into hibernation & later deactivated entirely. You have now lost them completely as confirmed by CS.

EE PAYG SIMs are deactivated after 6 months of non-chargeable use. You then have a further 3 months to call EE to reactivate it before it is lost completely.

You needed to make a chargeable action like making a chargeable call or text, topping up or buying a Pack or Add-on, not just using your mins, texts or data from your pack.

See EE PAYG Network T&Cs

6.3 You must make a Connection Action at least once every 180 days. If You do not, Your SIM Card will be disconnected from the Network and You will not be able to use the Services. You will lose Your mobile phone number and any Credit on Your Account at the time of such disconnection will be forfeited.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

Chris_B — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:32:10 GMT

@XRaySpeX The 2 unused SIM cards haven’t been used to even start a 6 month of none usage. 6 months can only start if they have been used and then not used. The packet states valid until 2028. How can they be valid until 2028 if they haven’t been used. The first sim was used less then 120 ago so could have gone in to hibernation but the 2 unused sims should still be valid.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

XRaySpeX — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:41:14 GMT

@Chris_B : Good point! I would agree with you & OP.

2.1 This Agreement starts when We accept Your request for Services. You are deemed to accept these conditions
when Your Account is first credited, or You otherwise use Your SIM to access the Network.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

Chris_B — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:50:03 GMT

@miffed5 I would call customer services and stress that the 2 unused sims should be valid until 2028 if they are unused and can not be deactivated until 2028. The hibernation/deactivation policy can only be applied once the sims are used and then not used. The point of sale of these has nothing to do with this or the early deactivation of the sims which goes against what @XRaySpeX has posted and is a breach of that T&C.
If would also make a point of what @XRaySpeX has posted section 2.1 of the T&Cs of service.

If you do call please do back and let us know how you got on.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

miffed5 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:53:04 GMT

thank you .. does the 6month countdown start on the day of purchase of the data sim card then, or from the date of activation, or some other starting point? my assumption was that the cards needed to be activated first which is why i could purchase them for future emergency use rather than have to used them immediately.

the packaging merely states the card is valid until 12/28.. for clarification, this is written on the topup card, so i assumed i could use the topup card linked to the sim card validly until 12/28??

(... the one year pre-topped up card is a separate issue, perhaps related to hibernation, since it did work when used a few months after purchase (summer 2023) but failed in november 2023.. )

Re: is this ethical from ee?

miffed5 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:57:52 GMT

ahh.. yes.. you have it in one. ...this is precisely my point that makes it unfair.. i just felt misled - it would be useful if ee could provide clear guidelines on the constraints of these data cards - sim cards in general i guess - .. if they already have then my mistake but couldnt find it on the packaging or information related to the purchase of the data card.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

Chris_B — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:58:16 GMT

@miffed5 It should start the from the day they are first used.

someone could purchase a sim one day and try and set it up the next day only to find it was deactivated the day of purchase because it was in the shop for 6 months or more before being purchased.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

XRaySpeX — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:00:55 GMT

As §2.1 of T&C's states it starts from when you 1st top-up or use it on the EE network.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

miffed5 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:13:22 GMT

@Chris_B , @XRaySpeX many thanks for both of your helpful comments and guidance.

one issue raised by cs was that the mobile number assigned to the card is now reassigned to someone else and is now running as another account on the ee network. it seems that this prevents the card (s) being reawakened and there is apparently nothing they can do. hence why i was advised to take up the issue with the original reseller. i am surprised the mobile number associated with the card cannot be overwritten, but might in some way be hardwired in permanent memory??

i will pursue the 1 year card separately with cs, but in the meantime, thank you for your feedback..

Re: is this ethical from ee?

Chris_B — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:19:18 GMT

@miffed5 The unused sims will need to be activated to have a change of number as a number has to be in place in order for a new number to replace it. If that makes sense. EE wouldn’t be able to just put a new number on a sim without knowing where that number was going too so hence it can not be activated with a different number.

Thats the best way to explain this.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

XRaySpeX — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:29:24 GMT

Yes, your SIMs are now numberless & can't be given a no. by conventional means.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

miffed5 — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:11:25 GMT

just to report back on the recent interaction today with ee customer support and close off this thread..

customer support confirm the 1 year card no longer works since the number has been reassigned to another account... .it is not simply dormant.. given that the card was purchased end of april 2023 and actually used at the end of summer 2023, it is clear it is impossible for 9 months to have passed, either from date of purchase or indeed from date of first registration. despite this, the number has been reallocated and there is nothing i or ee cs can do about it. this is in contravention to their own t&c's .. they are telling lies regarding the 6 month/9 month excuses and i regard this as unacceptable unethical corporate behaviour.

and similarly, the brand new unopened unregistered data card which also had its number transferred against the conditions of their own t&cs is also a problem they have washed their hands of.

i am writing this sorry experience up with supporting evidence of purchase and registration dates for ofcom to investigate whether this is sharp practice, or unethical, unprofessional and possibly fraudulent or breach of contrct behaviour by ee. so i hope other customers of ee may learn from my unfortunate experience.

Re: is this ethical from ee?

Christopher_G — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:44:40 GMT

Hi @miffed5

Welcome to the community and thank you for letting us know what has happened.

I recommend filling in this online form so that our complaints team can fully investigate this and get back to you to discuss this.

Please keep us posted on what happens.

Chris