topic Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal in Mobile Network discussions

Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

PaddyInWales — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 17:57:59 GMT

I'm with EE, and get a fine connection on phones via broadband wifi. But our smart meter is dumb because we live in a poor network area.

Octopus say "Unfortunately, smart meters typically connect through the DCC (Data Communications Company) network, which relies on mobile signals. If you're in an area with no mobile signal, it can indeed be challenging for the smart meter to communicate effectively. However, I appreciate your suggestion about using your EE network over Wi-Fi. Currently, smart meters are not designed to connect via Wi-Fi, but I can see how that would be a great solution."

I used to have a 3g booster/signal box but gather these have been discontinued since 4g. Can anyone suggest a hardware or software solution that can offer a decent signal to our dumb meter to make it smart?

Cheers -- Paddy in rural Wales

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

bristolian — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 20:20:29 GMT

Rural coverage is often hindered by local objections via the planning process, for new site builds!

The only other alternative is a professionally-installed signal booster, which can be investigated via Ofcom's site or Google - these are likely to cost several £hundred all-in.

You're correct to believe the legacy 3G picocells, marketed by EE as "signal box", were decommisioned as part of 3G switchoff.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Chris_B — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 20:46:07 GMT

@PaddyInWales You need to take this up with your energy supplier and they should be taking this up with DDC as it’s their network that’s being used for smart meters. The DDC should be sorting this out.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

uvarvu — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 21:14:34 GMT

Years ago when I moved to Ovo they gave me two choices when I requested smart meters, an IHD or a box that acted as a bridge between the meters and my internet connection that would enable a live dashboard on Ovo’s website. I chose the latter and it was excellent, well until Ovo discontinued that option. Sounds like it would have been perfect in your case if it was still going…

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

PaddyInWales — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 11:42:22 GMT

Thanks, yes that is what I hoped might be available to all of us who cannot connect to DCC! Can you recollect what the bridging box was called?

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

PaddyInWales — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 22:55:26 GMT

This from Octopus: surely this would meet my need? If my readings go via Wifi and Zigbee to Kraken, then Octopus can surely use them?

How does the Octopus Home Mini work?The Octopus Home Mini connects to your home Wi-Fi and the Home Area Network (HAN) of your electricity smart meter. The connection to your meter is made via a communication protocol called Zigbee.The Home Mini streams gas and electricity readings via Wi-Fi to our cloud-based platform Kraken, and you can then view them in your Octopus app.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

uvarvu — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 07:37:13 GMT

That’s it! I’m not sure why Ovo discontinued theirs. I’m with octopus and I’ve ordered one. I’m not sure whether octopus will use this for billing in the absence of a mobile signal, it might be worth checking with them first.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

PaddyInWales — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 18:56:55 GMT

This reply from my query to Octopus: but I need to find out from them whether this gives them access to all my data, to allow eg different pricing at night. We shall see!

You’re absolutely right! The Octopus Home Mini does indeed connect to your home Wi-Fi and communicates with your smart meter using Zigbee. This allows it to send your energy readings to our Kraken platform, which you can then access through the Octopus app.

If your smart meter is compatible and you have a good Wi-Fi connection, the Home Mini could be a great solution for you to monitor your energy usage more effectively. It’s designed to help customers like you get the most out of their smart meters, even in areas with limited mobile signal.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

MarkJC74 — Fri, 29 Nov 2024 20:05:07 GMT

Similar problem, thinking of moving to Octopus Agile tariff- did the ‘Home Mini’ solve the problem ??

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Peterpiano — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 10:47:01 GMT

I notice Paddy in Wales' message above has zero likes…..hardly surprising. The situation with two tariff electricity (on peak & off peak) is nonsensical, to say the least - particularly for 1,000s of rural dwellers like Paddy and us who are told that at present, "there is no solution".
Recently ( a couple of years ago) we got an EE mast, less than half a mile from us which enabled us to use a mobile phone from home for the first time ever. Despite the mast being so close, the reception is patchy, but better than nothing, I suppose.
So, two questions:
1).What is the reason why smart meters can't connect via wi-fi?
2). Electricity companies have less than THREE MONTHS before the existing and perfectly fine radio signal that transmits our on/off peak signal will be turned off. What will happen to people like us when that happens on June 30th 2025?
As far as us and other rural dwellers affected by this, the whole thing seems to have been extremely badly thought out and put into practice well before being tried and tested rigorously.
We live in the Lake District, in a 17thC farmhouse, which (surprise, surprise) is built of local stone, with most walls being up to almost 1 metre thick. We've been told that our walls are probably too thick to accommodate the new signal. Too thick - I will resist making the obvious comparison.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Chris_B — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:33:55 GMT

@Peterpiano smart meters have to have WiFi built in to them to work over WiFi. You can not make a cellular only device work with WiFi . It needs the hardware in it.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Peterpiano — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 13:14:55 GMT

Now I'm totally confused!

I've just been on the phone to an advisor at Scottish Power (our
supplier) who told me that the hardware within the smart meter
transmitted and received info via our EE mast, recently installed, less
than ½ a mile from our house, will use the mast to transmit and receive
info via phone signal.

You're saying, "No, it via Wi-fi." Well the house wall between us and
the mast is around one metre thick and no phone signal will penetrate
that, so I doubt a wi-if signal would.

Is there any sort of hardware I could mount just outside the house which
would pick up a line-of-sight signal and transmit it to the meter?
If so, the hardware could be mounted less than a metre away from the
smart meter, on the wall outside.

Maybe another solution would be to run an Ethernet cable from the router
in the dining room to a booster in the kitchen. Again, wall dividing
kitchen and dining room 1 meter thick approx. which is why a cable and
booster would be needed.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Peter.

Your response:
-------------------------

@Peterpiano [1] smart meters have to have WiFi built in to them to work
over WiFi. You can not make a cellular only device work with WiFi .
It needs the hardware in it.

Links:
------
[1]
https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3000422?emcs_t=S2h8ZW1haWx8bWVudGlvbl9zdWJzY3JpcHRpb258TTlCQ0FSMUZORENBNjZ8MTUyNDI3MHxBVF9NRU5USU9OU3xoSw

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

bristolian — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 16:35:55 GMT

@Peterpiano wrote:

Recently ( a couple of years ago) we got an EE mast, less than half a mile from us which enabled us to use a mobile phone from home for the first time ever. Despite the mast being so close, the reception is patchy, but better than nothing, I suppose.

We live in the Lake District, in a 17thC farmhouse, which (surprise, surprise) is built of local stone, with most walls being up to almost 1 metre thick. We've been told that our walls are probably too thick to accommodate the new signal.

If you have good line of sight to the serving radio site (or to be exact, the antennas at height), then it would be unusual for coverage to be patchy.

Different frequency bands have different propagation characteristics, and in EE's case - the base 1800Mhz band behaves differently to the "extended range" low-band 800Mhz.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

DJW-20 — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 16:06:36 GMT

Being also an energy enthusiast, unfortunately the use of devices like the octopus home mini isn't always accurate. Data can, if you're Wifi goes down, get bunched together and, for that being used in a billing setting is nothing short of a logistical nightmare! The OHM can get you live readings in the app, however they won't be able to bill you on it yet due to regulations

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

DJW-20 — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 16:10:24 GMT

Ask Scottish Power to install an external arial. I believe you are in the north (above blackpool)? In these areas, mobile signal is not used for smart meter communications, aquaria is used instead. So, unfortunately, if there's not even the faintest of signal on their network, your smart meter won't work, even with an external arial.

It's a silly system unfortunately, as in both regions, there are places where one can reach the Aquiva network but not the mobile and vis versa

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

DJW-20 — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 16:16:57 GMT

Hi! Let me debug this for you

In Wales, mobile signals are used to communicate for smart meters. They operate on a chosen carrier (currently O2 but will move over to VF soon). If you've got any hope of getting a weak signal from o2, you can ask your energy supplier to install an external antenna (It doesn't even need to go outside, just mounted outside of the smart meter) which may improve things.

Annoyingly too they only operate right now on the 2G/3G network so until later this year, you'll need one of those signals. O2 have discontinued their booster boxes however they wouldn't be compatible due to these requiring mobile numbers to be registered to allow a connection (which you can't do in a smart meter)

All very frustrating and we can only hope for change. The VF contact holds a bit of promise as they have schemes to install small cells in rural areas (on request) however who knows if it'll have enough of an impact

Best of luck!

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Peterpiano — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 10:43:56 GMT

Thank you for your reply.

What an utter mess this is! Possibly the most ill thought out national
project in years.
Why can't metering be left alone until a simple and effective solution -
approved by ALL electricity suppliers - is put into practice?

I have two electricity suppliers for two separate properties - OVO for
one and Scottish Power for our house.

Scottish Power says, "No problem. We've organised a date for an
appointment re your new smart meter" which is to be 29.04.25.

On the other hand, OVO with whom we have two accounts in a property we
let for holidays, have come back with a far more negative approach. They
have requested I send pictures of the meters so they can somehow decide
if smart meters will actually work in our area - a small valley in The
Lake District National Park.

What I fail to understand is why Scottish Power don't see our house as a
problem, whereas OVO sees our letting property - right next door to our
house - in a very different light, with possibly unsolvable problems.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

DJW-20 — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 11:01:36 GMT

Hahah I can assure you there are many worse projects!

We definitely need metering on the electrical grid, so I wouldn't think it's worth leaving it behind whilst this mess is cleaned up. Some suppliers are installing smart meters and praying that they can get connected when the comms networks improve. It's one of those really frustrating things where there isn't a one size fits all and as you can imagine, the original contact's were done in haste on a bulk scale.

How close are the properties? When signal is quite frail, literally anything will have an impact. Suppliers install the meter's themselves, the company can decide which smart meter they want to install meaning each supplier can have different equipment which works better in some places. Also worth noting some companies are just far more equipped at dealing with things, Octopus energy for example are typically better at managing this since their customers rely more heavily on smart meters.

I'd take a look at the O2 network in the area and how strong it is at both addresses. It's possibly also worth asking Ovo to install an external antenna. I was at a property last summer that had no working signal on any provider yet the external ariel (which ironically was mounted indoors) meant that their smart meter was working away!

Happy to direct you in what to check for should you wish!

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

Peterpiano — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 12:04:21 GMT

Thanks for your long and interesting explanation, but it still begs the question:
"IF IT AIN'T BROKE, WHY FIX IT?"

For decades we've all had the RTS system for meters to communicate with suppliers. Now, we're told that's going on 01.06.25. But just like the electric car fiasco, the new system(s) obviously aren't ready for mass roll out, particularly for people like us who live in rural areas.

Re electric cars: Did you see the video of one exploding and fiercely burning a few days ago at Gatwick?
Have you read the endless accounts of people not being able to charge their cars en route because of huge queues at service stations? How to the 200 people living in high-rise flats charge their cars, if they're all compelled to buy them? I could go on, but you get my point.

If you know the reason for discontinuing RTS, particularly in areas that don't have fibre cables yet, please let me know.

Again, thank you for all your help, so far.

Re: Smart Meter connot connect to poor mobile signal

DJW-20 — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 12:28:33 GMT

The reason RTS is being shutdown is because the infrastructure that provides the signals is reaching the end of it's life and it's simply not economically viable to keep it alive as transmitters fail and parts aren't widely available. Fibre cables don't have any influence in smart meters I must add. If you want Eco7, you can get that on a 'dumb' smart meter and just submit the readings yourself.

Not my place to comment on electric cars but the Gatwick incident has no reputable sources confirming it's electric so it's best not to speculate on it until we have the details.