topic Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna in Archived Posts

4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:46:20 GMT

Hey all. Got a quandary. My family live in rural North Staffordshire, UK, on a property that gets next to no 4G (zero inside, very patchy outside). I spoke to ofcom about getting better broadband and they told me I had to try 4G because my area was supposedly a 4G area. They suggested I try an antenna.
So, I signed up with EE and got a hub. Also booked a TSG engineer. He turned up, did some signal checks and found faint signal to the south of the property, probably at a mast at a wood just outside the village of Longnor, Staffordshire.
He refused to install the antenna, saying it’d be pointless. We both discussed the idea of putting the hub in a waterproof box and setting it up 100m away, on a hill above the property where we get up to 10mbps. For context the farmhouse is in a valley. 100m away you get 4G at up to 10mbps on a smartphone. Meanwhile half a mile away at the top of the drive, you can get up to 20mbps. I ran an extension and put the hub 100m away and speeded tested the wifi on my phone and got reasonable speeds. If I could consistently get 3-8mbps I’d be over the moon since copper (our existent and only internet) affords us 2-3mbps.

Subsequent to this, I climbed up onto the roof and put the hub next to the TV aerial and ran a 20m ethernet into the house. Lo and behold it works and gets 2-6mbps. I then placed a bag on the hub to simulate a rain cover and speeds dropped. Still, I can download up to 800kbps which is a definite improvement on what I’ve been used to.

Questions; do I opt for the 100m ethernet (or longer), with the hub installed in a waterproof box up the drive. Or do I try to put the hub 3-6m above the house near the aerial and stick with the 20m ethernet. In other words what’s the trade off between worse signal and shorter ethernet vs better signal and longer ethernet. Also, are their particular materials that 4G struggles to penetrate if I house the hub in a waterproof container.

Secondly, was the antenna guy just being idle? He said the antenna needs line of sight and that the hub is my best bet in the circumstances as it receives signal more like a phone. He also said his antenna cables were only 5m and you can’t extend them (I’m suspicious of this). Is it worth my while privately buying an antenna and running say a 10m cable down from the antenna (placed approx. 6m above the roof)?
I can’t get fibre, I’m waiting on Musk’s Starlink, I’m, exploring bonding/combining two copper broadbands. This whole 4G thing is other iron in the fire.

What are people’s thoughts? Would love some advice on the technical side of things. Ethernet and antenna cables, antenna reception vs hub etc.

Just for further info, with the 4G hub stuck in a bag hanging off the TV aerial above the roof I just clocked 22mbps with an upload speed of 4mbps. Even with the inconsistency I've never experienced speeds remotely that high at this property so I'm keen to keep the service. I just need to optimise how... hub outside waterproofed or hub inside, connected to an antenna.

Having looked at the forum it seems the TSH wasn't being totally straight with me as their antennas are omnidirectional. Question is then, are they better/same as the hub itself it put outside in terms of 4G signal reception.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 06:30:46 GMT

Edit: looks like the TSG engineer wasn't being totally straight with me.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Christopher_B — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 06:50:32 GMT

Hi @Griff6784

Welcome to the EE Community 😊

I hope you're well and having a nice weekend, are you up to much or having a chilled one?

It sounds like you're in a tricky sport with this, but it sounds like you're onto a winner with the bag hanging off the TV aerial. However I'm not sure how health and safety would stand on that haha.

Thanks

Chris

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 06:58:14 GMT

Haha thanks for replying mate. I'll put it in a dry bag and affix it more thoroughly if it proves the best solution. Is that really going to be better than an omnidirectional antenna? Furthermore, if I got a telescopic pole to take it higher, would it pick up more signal? I looked on a mast website and it seemed my area was actually covered not by the mast at Longnor but by another at a placed called Earl Sterndale which is beyond our farm up and over a steep valley. I'm not knowledge enough on 4G signal and reception.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Christopher_B — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 07:04:11 GMT

@Griff6784 this is very specialized so I'm not sure what would be best to be honest.

The best thing to do is have a chat with out home broadband team to see if they can help advise you around this.

Thanks

Chris

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 07:36:59 GMT

Thanks mate, I'll ring them today and hopefully also speak to TSG when they ring me to discuss fallout from refusal to antenna install. I'm also on ISPreview forums where there might be some niche technical assistance. I just wish I knew more about 4G signal, mast location and the technology to maximise speed and consistency.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Christopher_B — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 07:38:34 GMT

Thanks @Griff6784

Please let us know how you get on.

Thanks

Chris

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 12:43:30 GMT

As I suspected EE tech support didn't know diddly squat. The most I got out of them was the best 4G mast which services the premises, some 17km away. I've been onto more forums and sent an email out to a Wifi specialist to get his opinion. I'm getting really very acceptable speeds with the hub outside on the aerial. Reckon my best bet will be a outdoor rated 4G router on a telescopic pole, powered via PoE and a 25m ethernet cable into the house.

I'm just a little frustrated that EE doesn't allow customers to speak to its actual technical specialists who surely know about this stuff. Also disappointing they outsource to TSG and between them only offer the antenna, not IP rated 4G hubs and that nobody seems prepared or able to speak about the nitty gritty aspects of the problem.

Thanks for your replies Chris.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 16:46:06 GMT

On a side note Chris, do you know how to access the diagnostics/menu of the 4G hub via smartphone or on a desktop/laptop PC?

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Leanne_T — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 06:58:19 GMT

Morning @Griff6784

Thanks for coming back to us.

Do you have the 4GEE Home router?

Leanne.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

Griff6784 — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 19:49:04 GMT

Yeah got the 4GEE router. I figured out how to access diagnostics/menu. Also speaking to a WiFi specialist company about replacing that router with an outdoor rated router, subject to analysing my signal strength and nearest mast location. I can't get this information from anyone at EE or TSG. In my view, the lack of expertise is a bit of a poor show. Without internet forums, third party hardware etc, and me clambering onto my roof to test the router, I'd have sent the whole thing back and cancelled my package.

As it stands, I'm getting speeds I'd happily keep paying for, but it's not sustainable to have the router hanging off my TV aerial in a waterproof box.

Re: 4G Hub vs Antenna

mikeliuk — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:30:44 GMT

Hi @Griff6784 ,

Please see the Opensignal app "Find signal" tab, and "Cell towers" button to get an indication of where the local cell towers might be. The cellmapper.net website is also very good but too complicated for some people to use. opencellid.org is good for cell towers you know you are connected to but not showing on other maps.

I feel you've hit on the correct decision not to put an indoor router outside with DIY waterproofing. I feel it would be good to take professional advice on whether an outdoor antenna (there are online articles regarding signal attenuation based on length of cable) would be more suitable or an outdoor router (direct maintenance might be slightly trickier).

Purely based on what I read, I feel that this brand is very reasonable: https://poynting.tech/how-to-choose-an-antenna/

And the key decision to be made on an antenna is whether it should be directional or omni-directional. I guess if an outdoor router does ok, then omni-directional would also do ok. The above cell tower location checks should give an indication of what towers you might connect to and you may wish to record the actual towers you connect to and their performance to check if you have perfectly good towers in opposite directions, or whether all the good towers are clearly in just one direction from your location.