topic Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ? in Archived Posts

Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

Cedrik — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:11:28 GMT

Greetings,

Am looking at the possibility of getting a Wifi 6 router as I now have Fibremax 300 installed. Apart from future proofing, are there any compelling reasons to get one / not to get one.

I must say I'm impressed with the Wifi capabilities of the new Smart Router, but am looking more to ther long term.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

Christopher_B — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 11:33:56 GMT

Hi @Cedrik

I think the verdict is still out on Wifi 6 routers when it comes to speed. They are more about handling more devices better, so I would say it depends on how many devices you have connected at one time.

Thanks

Chris

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

EssexBoyEE — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:59:20 GMT

I've got a Wi-Fi 6 router and a few Wi-Fi 6 devices and to be honest I can't say it makes any difference speed wise.

One thing I do do though is I set my 5ghz Channel up above Channel 100 or more where possible and any devices that can't reach up there go on 2.4ghz, at least on 5ghz Band I'm up there on my own without any interfering Nieghbours.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

pip11 — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:04:19 GMT

That's the difference between ISP supplied equipment and third party.

You won't see any significant speed difference between either of them but the amount of control over your network is chalk and cheese. Third party will always trump ISP supplied.

As regards future proofing then it depends how your fibre max is delivered. If by G.Fast then your choices of router are limited as it would need either a separate G.Fast modem or integrated one.

FTTP, any dumb router (ie no integral modem) would suffice if it suits your needs.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

Cedrik — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 18:27:22 GMT

Thanks very much for the replies - food for thought.

I should say I don't know if the Fibremax is delivered by G.Fast or not. How much network control might I need ? I disabled the Smart Router on 2.4 Ghz and it works well re. neighbours at 5Ghz

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

pip11 — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 18:48:10 GMT

If you have one of these (or similar) then it is FTTP.

If you connect to the phone master socket it is G.Fast.

Image will show when a mod approves it.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

Cedrik — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:49:12 GMT

Cheers,

Can't see the image yet, it connects to an Openreach ONT - not the phone master socket.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

psychopomp2 — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:59:25 GMT

OP, You'll be ok with a wifi 5 router (which I'm guessing what the EE supplier router is) as that can easily give 300+ Mbps over wifi 5 clients, but if you were to upgrade to the 500 Mbps or 1 Gig FTTP service, I would definitely recommend a Wifi 6 router as its almost impossible to get over 500 Mbps over wifi 5.

This is what my Netgear RAX200 gives me over my TalkTalk 1 Gig FTTP line, using wifi:

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

XRaySpeX — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 20:00:32 GMT

Then it's FTTP. As @pip11 said any router will suffice; it doesn't need an integrated modem.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

Cedrik — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 08:10:25 GMT

Hi,

Ta for your response. Just a point, I presume the EE Smart Router would be fine for the Fibremax 900 plan, as I presume they ship that router with it ?

Thanks again everyone for the responses, may well pick one up at some point.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

psychopomp2 — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 08:18:39 GMT

Yep, the EE supplied router should give you wired speeds of 900 Mbps on their FibreMax 900 plan. But I'm almost 100% certain it won't give you 900 Mbps over wifi, for that you will need a wifi 6 router and of course wifi 6 clients as well.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

soupladel — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:30:05 GMT

@psychopomp2 I have an Asus Ax11000 on Fibremax 900 and i only wish i could get wifi speeds that high, mine tops out about 600mbps, but i get 900Mbps consistently when using wired.

Have spent near £400 on the Ax11000 i am not inclined to go buy another router just to determine if the AX11000 is faulty, so for me the upgrade to wifi 6 hasn't so far been worth it

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

mikeliuk — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:17:10 GMT

Hi @soupladel ,

Is the device topping out at 600 Mbps near the router and making a WiFi 6/802.11ax connection?

Do two such devices running a bandwidth test each obtain around 450 Mbps at the same time?

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

soupladel — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:27:21 GMT

@mikeliuk Yup, I have confirmed that any devices tested are connect to the 5GHz_1 band at AX speeds with 160Mhz. I have tried a variety of distances and lines of sight to rule out it being an environmental problem and none of it has helped.

The one thing i had neglected to do was as you suggested and run two devices at the same time at the same location and it turns out that the combined speed of both amounts to roughly 600Mbps.

So it seems on that basis that the problem is almost entirely down to the router not being able to supply full speed by wifi, so the question is how do i convince a retailer of that now in my attempts to return it?

Or is there something i am missing that might be limiting the wifi throughput of the router? i dont have QoS enabled and i am not using anything like smart connect either.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

XRaySpeX — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:33:41 GMT

@soupladel : Only the statutory 14-day cooling-off period if still applicable if you bought online or by phone.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

soupladel — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:36:28 GMT

@XRaySpeX the router at this point is approx 5 months old, so well outside any initial cooling off period, but on the basis it is covered by at least a 12 month guarantee, at the very least a repair should be offered at this point, the problem is getting them to believe it is in fact faulty.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

mikeliuk — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:06:16 GMT

Hi @soupladel ,

On the single-device number, you may be hitting a client-side limitation such as found at https://www.technologyfocus.net/network-how-much-faster-is-wifi-6-than-wifi-5/ with 2x2 MIMO capping at around 600 Mbps and 3x3 MIMO hitting 700 Mbps.

Two devices of the same capability hitting an aggregate cap of 600 Mbps is unexpected and the best play is probably ensure the two 5 GHz radios have their own SSID (if possible) and to try a simultaneous benchmark that way.

5G-1Hz AX: 4x4 (Tx/Rx) 1024 QAM 20/40/80/160MHz, up to 4804Mbps
5G-2Hz AX: 4x4 (Tx/Rx) 1024 QAM 20/40/80/160MHz, up to 4804Mbps

https://rog.asus.com/uk/networking/rog-rapture-gt-ax11000-model/spec

The AX11000 has been found to perform below its headline rate and below competing products but on balance I don't think it is sufficiently poor to justify a return in all circumstances. It's possible that a later firmware version could perform somewhat better. https://www.tomsguide.com/us/asus-rog-rapture-gt-ax11000,review-6373.html

I think you would need to show transmission errors to argue there is some fault in the silicon somewhere.

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

soupladel — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:18:44 GMT

@mikeliuk i think you have hit the nail on the head because when i try the same two devices on separate SSIDs, i get a result closer to full speed. therefore i am just going to have to accept i have a router that only really operates at roughly 75% of its advertised speeds in a single device scenario over wifi

Re: Wifi 6 router is it worth it with Fibremax ?

mikeliuk — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:49:00 GMT

It's good to hear you've now got new methodologies to benchmark and characterize the performance of your hardware which, being cutting-edge, is typically quite expensive with a premium over older technology.

My feeling is that 75% of some cap/bottleneck for a single device is very good and could well be explained if it is a 3x3 MIMO device or below. Possibly a 4x4 MIMO client, if one exists, could achieve better so it may not all be down to any bottleneck with the router.

The high bandwidth capability of the router is actually bottlenecked by the internet WAN so a fairer test of the WiFi capability would actually be to transfer data within the LAN, for example using multiple phones or laptops to access files which are on a server directly wired to the router (e.g. purchased 4K UHD movies or lossless music). For Linux users, synthetic iperf tests could be used to see how capable the router is.

Making a note that using the third radio would additionally help to show the switching capacity of the router.

2.4GHz AX: 4x4 (Tx/Rx) 1024 QAM 20/40MHz, up to 1148Mbps