topic Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub. in Archived Posts

Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mescubasteve — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:42:08 GMT

Hi folks.

Hopefully the following makes sense. I’m struggling to get my system to work consistently. Long story short. We have a cabin at the bottom of the garden where we would like to connect internet (with the a TP-Link device TD-W9970) for laptops, mobiles, etc. The EE SH is in the hallway with a cat6 cable leaving the house and going directly to the cabin and is plugged in to the TP-Link device.

Firstly, I believe (possibly wrongly) that the TPL device is capable of doing what I want it to do.

The problem I have is that sometimes when the cat6 is plugged in to the EE SH some devices around the home (Ring doorbell and chime, streaming stick, etc.) disconnect and will not reconnect while the cable is plugged in. Currently my wife is connected in the cabin but the streaming stick won’t connect unless unplug the cat6. Yesterday it was the Ring devices.

What am I missing or not doing? Is my device compatible with my requirements? What settings do I need to check / change?

I’ve been wondering whether I should even swap the devices but no idea where to start with that?

There is lots of talk on the internet about setting access points, bridging, blah blah blah. I’m not too sure my TP-Link device will even do what I want it to do.

Any and all help would be hugely appreciated.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mustrum — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:48:13 GMT

In theory setting the TP Link to access mode should be OK.

But without you giving any details it is hard to say. If things are disconnection it could be that both routers are using the same address range, whereas turning DCHP off on the TP Link would stop that.

It is the Blah Blah bits as you call them that are important.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mescubasteve — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:30:00 GMT

Thanks @Mustrum. What information is it that’s needed? I can try and get that then.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

XRaySpeX — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:54:18 GMT

Try mimicking To make a 2nd Brightbox as a Routing WAP on your LAN to the main Brightbox

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mustrum — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:58:37 GMT

@Mescubasteve The TP Link Community has a guide/video on what to do, just make sure you follow the guidance on DHCP and IP address range.

https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/158227

Ooops, @XRaySpeX beat me to it, now you have a choice, but it is the same thing.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

mikeliuk — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:09:25 GMT

Hi @Mescubasteve ,

Judging from your original report and assuming your cabin receives mains electricity from the house, I would recommend that you switch to Devolo powerline adapters with a WiFi access point in the cabin. Other brands are available.

I do not get the impression you would enjoy the details of getting your second router to play well with your main router such as differentiating between WAN and LAN ports, or understanding IPv4 subnets, and the function of DHCP, broadcast domains and routing.

My above suggestion will spare you this pain. 🤓

I myself have advised other users on here that the minimal configuration approach is to use the WAN port on the second router in a double-NAT configuration and I use this configuration myself. This is typically the best choice when there is a new router which has become the main router (such as when the ISP has changed) because the old router will essentially work as before in most cases.

If the second router has no WAN port, you would go for a LAN to LAN configuration as others have advised above. To get this to work successfully, you would need to disable DHCP server on the second router to avoid a clash partitioning your broadcast domain into two segments which don't talk to each other, which it likely why you see the current problems.

The tricky bit with LAN to LAN is maintaining access to the second router's management function and to do this you would need to understand a little about subnets and IP addresses. At this point I personally would be tempted to go for the bespoke tidy option which eliminates the long cable and gives you 1.2 Gbps in each direction and which might exceed gigabit Ethernet.

I also have the option of running a long Ethernet cable the entire length of my property. I even have a cable in excess of 15 m from my uni-days, I've simply made the choice to use Devolo powerline adapters since before 2009 instead.

Good luck! I would be interested to hear how you get on learning about home networking. 😁

An additional benefit I find with a powerline adapter access point is that it attaches to a power socket so it takes up zero footprint and doesn't even block the socket as a full-blown router would when used as a wireless/WiFi access point.

If you do want to go on the adventure of turning a second router into an access point, the pictures on wikihow should give you comfort. https://www.wikihow.com/Connect-Two-Routers

It would be slightly tidier to purchase an WiFi access point instead of repurposing a router which in principle is a device to perform routing such as between networks/subnets.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mustrum — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:02:45 GMT

@mikeliuk really, do you think the OP can't follow either of the previous simple guides?

They already have all the kit they need, no need to spend more.

Do you work for Devolo? Are you on commission or something?

Whilst I do use powerlines (not the WiFi ones) between by kitchen and lounge, it is a short distance, but given the choice of a cat5/6 cable the cable would win every time.

PS, late edit after someone else edited, he forgot to say how much slower powerlines would be over a long mains connection.

The trouble is, none of the updates will be emailed out and rely on posts being read again.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

XRaySpeX — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:36:29 GMT

@mikeliuk is patronising. OP asked how to do something & he tells OP how to do something else cuz he makes out what OP wants to do is too difficult for him.

In fact he always answers a Q with the answer to an entirely different Q.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

Mustrum — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:49:12 GMT

He also has a habit of editing his post and adding even more pointless and irrelevant drivel seemingly to add even more confusion. Presumably to try and deflect attention from his lack of accurate information and understanding to the original query?

Or maybe he just thinks no one will notice!

Many other forums have timers to prevent this kind of thing, perhaps a modification can be added, will add the suggestion in the appropriate area.

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

XRaySpeX — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:57:08 GMT

@Mustrum : Yes, I've given up reading @mikeliuk 's boring drivel after initially following him to see all the inaccuracies I could catch him out on 😉

Re: Cry for help. Using a TP Link TD-W9970 with the EE smart hub.

mikeliuk — Sat, 14 Aug 2021 14:52:40 GMT

One of the points raised by the community above is quite interesting and I thought I would test it for the benefit of readers coming to this thread some months or years later (a 5G connection is likely to reduce overall latency so the landscape will look different).

I've not previously thought to test the latency introduced by carrying data over powerlines. I'm currently using Reserve Data so the bandwidth is capped at 2 Mbps. The sub 30 ms latencies are the lowest I've seen which is surprising for lunchtime on a sunny day. I had hoped to test in the early morning but a residents' event came up.

Linux server directly cabled (network path is D-Link switch -> Linksys OpenWRT router -> Netgear MR1100 4G LTE)

[x@x ~]$ speedtest-cli --server 30690 --share
Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Testing from EE (109.249.187.96)...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Retrieving information for the selected server...
Hosted by Community Fibre Limited (London) [9.29 km]: 28.534 ms
Testing download speed................................................................................
Download: 2.22 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed......................................................................................................
Upload: 2.32 Mbit/s
Share results: http://www.speedtest.net/result/11880095277.png

Microsoft Windows 10 Cat 6 cable to Devolo powerline adapter to a second Devolo powerline adapter and D-Link switch:

PING ms
22
DOWNLOAD Mbps
2.16
UPLOAD Mbps
2.16

https://www.speedtest.net/result/11880093134

So a rough estimate is that the three additional hops adds roughly 6.5 ms (downstairs ring main to upstairs ring). This is conceivably more than if I run a 20 m or 30 m cable upstairs instead.

Some repeats against automatically selected servers (and paired with the same server manually selected).

[x@s ~]$ speedtest-cli --share; date
Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Testing from EE (109.249.187.96)...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Selecting best server based on ping...
Hosted by Jump Networks Ltd (London) [9.29 km]: 28.892 ms
Testing download speed................................................................................
Download: 2.06 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed......................................................................................................
Upload: 2.28 Mbit/s
Share results: http://www.speedtest.net/result/11880206598.png
Sat 14 Aug 15:29:47 BST 2021

PING ms
24
DOWNLOAD Mbps
2.20
UPLOAD Mbps
2.18

https://www.speedtest.net/result/11880210098

[x@x ~]$ speedtest-cli --share; date
Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Testing from EE (109.249.187.96)...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Selecting best server based on ping...
Hosted by Livedrive Internet (London) [9.29 km]: 25.384 ms
Testing download speed................................................................................
Download: 2.18 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed......................................................................................................
Upload: 2.27 Mbit/s
Share results: http://www.speedtest.net/result/11880216801.png
Sat 14 Aug 15:32:14 BST 2021

PING ms
21
DOWNLOAD Mbps
2.24
UPLOAD Mbps
2.23

https://www.speedtest.net/result/11880219653

I feel if the Ethernet cable was installed at the same time as the mains power, or properly installed tidily underground, it's certainly worth using.

If the Ethernet cable is trailing untidily, obstructing a door or window, or runs over the surface of the ground, it would be best to sack that idea. Two decades ago I would have been quite happy to run a 20 m or 30 m cable but times have moved on in the consumer space and powerline adapters are certainly things to consider in the mix of the appropriate technology to go for. I have no objection to anyone choosing to run an Ethernet cable, it's their property after all. 😁

Here is some interesting benchmarking where the TP-Link comes out ahead of the Devolo Magic-2: https://www.jiribrejcha.net/2020/08/throughput-speed-test-of-tp-link-and-devolo-magic-2-wi-fi-power-line-adapters-plc/ The ping and jitter appear to be below 3 ms.