topic Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed in Archived Posts

day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:33:58 GMT

Hello. We switched from Talk Talk to EE at the start of the week, that was activation day (5/7/21). I did ring the freephone number to ask about the connection as we had no phone or broadband for half the first day, though the staff in the EE shop said we wouldn't be without.

By midnight there was a connection but very slow. The next day this continued till around teatime. It was okay then but about half the speed of Talk Talk, and that had only been 2.7 Mbits. Bad 2005 kind of speeds.

Back to almost no movement earlier today and then under 2 meg for some time. Double-checked it wasn't the laptops by using my Alcatel 4G router (EE payg sim) which gave about 25 Mb.

I'm slightly above averagely knowledgeable but still in the dark with a lot of techy stuff. I see that simpler versions of two of my webmail accounts work, like Yahoo Mail's 'classic' mode and Yandex Mail's 'Lite' mode. Wikipedia opens at the speed we're used to, eBay is okay. The Guardian and The Canary news websites open straight away. Seems sort of security related maybe? Or I gather my lighter email sites don't use Java?

The letter that came refers to two weeks of settling down time with the connection. What is being done there?

Can I do anything myself with the router settings? For example, the ADSL setting? I remember going through that with Talk Talk in the early days and seeing some change.

Would using OpenDNS mess anything up? (I've otherwise been using that for twelve years.)

Why is this slower than it was with Talk Talk when using the same already very outdated technology? What's behind fibre not being available when the 4G and 5G is all happening fine on this estate, which isn't a village or anywhere remote? (DA12 4ND)

Many thanks.

INTERNET Broadband Type ADSL Broadband State Connected Internet State Connected Time Connected 00:53:32 Downstream Rate 1.87 Mbps Upstream Rate 0.98 Mbps IP Address 2.25.126.129 Broadband Username PRODUCTIONxxxxxxxxxxxx@fs WIRELESS Wireless Network Name (SSID) Wireless Password Security Channel SSID State Broadcast SSID EE-BrightBox-xxxxxx xxxxxx WPA/WPA2 1 Enabled Enabled CURRENTLY CONNECTED DEVICES Name/Device IP Address MAC Address Connection Type debian 192.168.1.109 00:24:D7:96:F1:78 Wireless USB DEVICE Share Name File System Capacity Free Space No supported device found INFORMATION FEATURES Wireless Enabled Firewall Enabled UPnP Enabled LAN & WIRELESS (DEFAULT) Gateway 192.168.1.1 Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0 DHCP Server Enabled INTERNET Protocol PPPoA VPI/VCI 0/38 Encapsulation VC MUX DSL Mode Automatic Subnet Mask 255.255.255.255 Gateway 172.16.10.147

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

XRaySpeX — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:45:07 GMT

Welcome to EE's Home Broadband Forum.

If you would like help with your BB speed or connection issues, please would you carry out the following steps for starters, which will enable us to diagnose the problem and advise you further. Do not restart your router to do these tests:

1. Post your full router stats:

For a BrightBox: login and go to Advanced Settings/ System/ DSL Status. Also post 'System Uptime' from top of System Log page.
For a SmartHub: login and go to Advanced Settings/ Technical Log/ Information. Obscure your names & any numbers in the BB Username & also the SSIDs.

Full router stats are key to any speed & connection issues.

2. Try a wired speedtest, using an Ethernet cable supplied with the router, here http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html . Click on the "Results Page" button at the bottom of the graph you first see and then copy to here just the "Link to this result:" link that you see below the next main graph.

3. What does BT Wholesale Broadband Availability Checker estimate for your phone number? Post just the whole table and the line above it, blanking out your phone number. If it doesn't recognise your phone number or you don't have one, use the Address Checker, not the Postcode Checker.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

Mustrum — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:58:22 GMT

@ID010471 Whilst I don't your exact address, the expected speeds in your area is only around 3Mbps at best.

Whilst FTTC Fibre (VDSL) is available in your area, there is currently a waiting list - I selected a random address (No 15) and checked the address checker @XRaySpeX has provided in his post, rather than your phone number - that had full 80Mbps available, were it not for the waiting list.

Talk Talk uses their own equipment in the exchange, so may have tweaked things to slightly improve your speeds.

Keep checking the checker and get your order in when the waiting list has gone for better speeds.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 19:16:04 GMT

Thanks for the quick responses. (The 1.92 speed on the router stats at this precise moment in time don't seem dire but the browser just hangs.)

BT Broadband availability checker details:

Telephone Number xxxxxxxxxx on Exchange GRAVESEND is served by Cabinet 33
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) help 80 60 20 17.8 54.4 Waiting list Waiting list --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 79.4 57 20 16.5 49 Waiting list Waiting list --
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) ADSL Availability Date WBC SOADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
WBC ADSL 2+ -- -- -- -- -- Yes
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- Yes
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Observed Speeds ADSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed 4.07
Max Observed Upstream Speed 0.62
Observed Date 2021-07-07
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Premise Environment Status
Bridge Tap U
VRI --
NTE FacePlate --
Last Test Date --
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange help N
WLR Withdrawal help N
SOADSL Restriction help Y

***

Wired test, Thinkbroadband link:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1625684167714824955

***

Router stats:

INTERNET
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 00:28:58
Downstream Rate 1.92 Mbps
Upstream Rate 0.95 Mbps
IP Address 2.25.126.169
Broadband Username PRODUCTIONxxxxxxx@fs
WIRELESS
Wireless Network Name (SSID) Wireless Password Security Channel SSID State Broadcast SSID
EE-BrightBox-xxxxxx xxxxxx WPA/WPA2 6 Enabled Enabled
CURRENTLY CONNECTED DEVICES
Name/Device IP Address MAC Address Connection Type
Unknown Device 192.168.1.15 46:B5:92:04:3D:6E Wireless
debian 192.168.1.109 00:24:D7:96:F1:78 Wireless
USB DEVICE
Share Name File System Capacity Free Space
No supported device found
INFORMATION
FEATURES
Wireless Enabled
Firewall Enabled
UPnP Enabled
LAN & WIRELESS (DEFAULT)
Gateway 192.168.1.1
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
DHCP Server Enabled
INTERNET
Protocol PPPoA
VPI/VCI 0/38
Encapsulation VC MUX
DSL Mode Automatic
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.255
Gateway 172.16.10.147
Primary DNS 87.237.17.169
Secondary DNS 87.237.17.201

Thanks.

Should we avoid using OpenDNS (at least for now), and should turning the router on and off be avoided?

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

mikeliuk — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 20:30:03 GMT

Hi @ID010471 ,

Given that you don't judge 1.92 Mbps to be dire, I would recommend that you additionally visit fast.com and speed test.net to record the unloaded latency/ping and loaded latency, and compare these between your fixed line broadband versus the 4G router.

Latency has greater relevance to responsiveness of webpages than bandwidth. You will be more interested in errors and packet drops than bandwidth.

DNS latency is unlikely to account for the delays which you see but on a command line you can run ping to the DNS servers listed in your output (assuming they respond), and compared to ping to Open DNS. You would be interested in firstly the packet loss, and secondly the time to respond.

Personally I judge 1.9 Mbps to be dire (whether you could be release from a contract depends on whether the webpage loading problems do disappear after two weeks) and suspect your resources might be better spent on a SIM-only contract and capable 4G router such as a Netgear M1 (MR1100). In my location, 4G LTE gives me between 25 Mbps to 60 Mbps.

I'm also toying with the idea of a DrayTek 2927Lac which can load-balance over a fixed line and a cellular WAN so you get the benefit of both in one WiFi connection. 🤓

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

Mustrum — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 19:52:32 GMT

@mikeliuk That has to have been the most unhelpful post from you for a while!

The OP has just signed up to a 24 month fixed contract and wants to get the best from his ADSL line.

Your suggestion to use 4G could cost him/her £200-300 in cancellation fees - please if you must reply to posts on here consider not everyone wants to the nonsense you come up with.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

Mustrum — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 20:16:48 GMT

@ID010471 Avoid frequent rebooting the router, DLM could think you have an unstable line and slow things down even more. But changing DNS should not affect things, that said and although I do use another DNS server, I never found the EE one to be an issue.

From the DSL checker it seems you initially had higher speeds - the observed speeds - but things are slowing down. Have you done the quiet line test - dial 17070 option 2 from a corded phone - is there any noise?

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:43:10 GMT

Thanks. No corded phone here, but no noise on the cordless.

The speed does seem dire by 2021 standards and of course in practice things like iPlayer can't be used. Mostly for now the internet here is being used for email and eBay, and the Talk Talk speed was acceptable and what we were used to. Of course since using tethered internet and my 4G that's looked very different to me.

I'd suggested ditching the landline and getting a decent data contract with smartphones but was outvoted as the landline was wanted (for reasons that are beyond my understanding...).

Unfortunately EE covered themselves by citing a minimum speed of 0.4 Mbps and so there'd be no grounds for cancellation. The shop sprung the non-availability of fibre at the last minute and I wasn't present myself on the day. Borderline mis-selling really, at least. If the pages load and we get somewhere near the Talk Talk speed after a fortnight then given that this is not just mine we'll settle for now, but paying 2021 prices for 2005 tech is more than an annoyance.

I should say though, that obviously we won't pay for two years of this if it's going to be a mess. I can't imagine EE trying it on, to pursue their severence money if we have evidence of a poor service, so if there's no progress it's EE who's broken the contract and not us by shutting the direct debit down.

At present though I'm open to having this properly solved.

Thanks.

fast.com, 4G - 19Mbps, unloaded 27 ms loaded 580 ms

EE - 45Kbps unloaded 0 ms loaded 290 ms

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

XRaySpeX — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:52:58 GMT

That's the wrong page for the router stats (1). Please reread my post and follow my route exactly.

You may switch your DNS in the router to OpenDNS's. In fact I would recommend those over EE's DNS.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

XRaySpeX — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:00:11 GMT

@mikeliuk : What tosh! Try addressing the OP's issue and not your own bugbears.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

Mustrum — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:01:08 GMT

@ID010471 not sure how you expect anything to change, you choose to use ADSL, but not upgrade to VDSL.

How can you possibly expect anything to change?

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

mikeliuk — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:19:16 GMT

Hi @ID010471 ,

On reflection, you're absolutely right that I've not seen measured bandwidth as low as 2 Mbps on a fixed line for over 17 years when I believe that was a good number for Virgin Media (at one time that was their top package).

My colleagues currently speak of 100 Mbps, 300 Mbps, and 500 Mbps at home.

I think the best outcome would be if your bandwidth remains below a value suitable for video conferencing on Zoom so that it becomes impossible to work from home and you might be released from contract. https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/204003179-System-Requirements-for-Zoom-Rooms

45 Kbps is absolutely unusable.

0.4 Mbps I do not believe is suitable even for a single user hoping to use Teams or Zoom to work from home. It's below even the requirement for a single SD stream.

I have my doubts about 0 ms ping. 12 ms ping would be considered good within the same room (on a non-HPC switch).

I would be interested to see whether you observe any packet loss (given as a percentage) in a command line running ping on a public endpoint such as google.com and your choice of DNS (the service provider's DNS should have lower ping as it would in theory be closer to you on the same infrastructure).

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

pip11 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:09:13 GMT

@MustrumHow can the OP upgrade to VDSL when there's a waiting list and is not the account holder?

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

XRaySpeX — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:21:38 GMT

@mikeliuk : Where does EE guarantee you can video conference over Zoom? This is ADSL! They just guaranteed 0.4 Meg to the OP and he accepted that. What have your colleagues on fast fibre got to do with OP? Stop waffling!

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:37:37 GMT

Apologies, yes, I managed to gloss over a few details. Here's the right output:

System Uptime is: 05:03:42 [Noted now to stop rebooting, b.t.w.]

As you might guess, the domestic situation here is Covid-related. The bill payer would not have a hope of understanding any of this and has been livid for a couple of days so the task falls to fallible-but-persevering me.

DSL STATUS This page shows information about your DSL connection. If you are using Fibre/Ethernet Broadband then this page is not applicable.

STATUS Configured CurrentLine StatusLink TypeOperation Mode

--	UP
--	Interleaved Path
Automatic	G.992.3 (ADSL2)

DATA RATE INFORMATIONUpstreamDownstream

950 (Kbps)

1920 (Kbps)

DEFECT/FAILURE INDICATIONOperation Data Upstream DownstreamNoise MarginLine Attenuation

6.8 (dB)	18.6 (dB)
28.4 (dB)	51.0 (dB)

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End IndicatorOutput PowerFast Path FEC CorrectionInterleaved Path FEC CorrectionFast Path CRC ErrorInterleaved Path CRC ErrorLoss Of Signal DefectFast Path HEC Error STRInterleaved Path HEC ErrorError Seconds

12.8 (dBm)	0.0 (dBm)
--	--
17799706	44
--	--
680500	11
1	0
--	--
663290	14
15814	14

STATISTICSReceived DataTransmitted Data

62699 (Kbits)

191703 (Kbits)

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:46:55 GMT

p.s. I do appreciate all the posts regardless of intentions.

(According to fast.com the speed was then suddenly 1.5 Mbps, 35 ms unloaded latency, 530ms loaded, and a few minuts later 960 Kbps, 34 ms, 932 ms.)

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

XRaySpeX — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 03:25:32 GMT

Let's now apply a few facts & a bit of science to this rather than speculation & anicdotes.

Thanks. You do have a lotta errors showing. You sure the QLT was silent?

Funny that you were observed yesterday as syncing at 4.07 Meg! That's at least what I'd expect your line to be capable of even tho' you do have a long line.

Try changing the (A)DSL Mode on the Advanced / BB Settings page to G.992.1 (G.DMT) & repost router stats. You can change it back to AUTO later if it doesn't pan out.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 07:51:32 GMT

I did try this but it would not connect. (I remember doing this with the Talk Talk over a decade ago too.) The stats for G.dmt:

DSL Status
This page shows information about your DSL connection. If you are using Fibre/Ethernet Broadband then this page is not applicable.
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- TRAINING
Link Type -- --
Operation Mode Automatic --
Data Rate Information
Upstream 0 (Kbps)
Downstream 0 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 0.0 (dB) 0.0 (dB)
Line Attenuation 0.0 (dB) 0.0 (dB)

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 0.0 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction -- --
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error -- --
Loss of Signal Defect 11 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error -- --
Error Seconds 15930 16
Statistics
Received Data 5 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 4 (Kbits)

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

ID010471 — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 08:05:47 GMT

Also the BT Broadband checker is stating 4.07 again for today's date - is that really the current connection or is this reporting the best speed achieved at this address? We may once have had that a couple of years ago here. This is a house where at one point the internet would cut out if an electric carving knife was used in the kitchen...

Thanks for your continued assistance.

Re: day 3 of broadband, very cantankerous behaviour and speed

Leanne_T — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:33:31 GMT

Hi @ID010471

Thanks for posting on the community.

If you get in touch with our Broadband Tech team, they will be able to run through some trouble shooting and help you further.

Thanks.

Leanne.